Talk: Weapons by prefix (Borderlands)

Shotguns

SPR Prefix

It seems that the SPR prefix is just for the look of the gun. There is one entry in Borderlands\WillowGame\Localization\INT.gd_weap_combat_shotgun.INT for SPR :

[Body.body2 WeaponPartDefinition] PartName="SPR"

Maybe the number after SPR denotes the different weapon parts. In that case, the same is probably also true for other prefixes like GGNXXX for sniper rifles or TDXXX for SMGs. --Buckermann 13:29, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I disagree to some degree to that; there are some weapons that have similar stats when they have for example GGN10 at the beginning. Some just have small adjustments, such as the damage, but there's not much more than that. I don't think that goes for all weapons, but so far I've seen that two guns have the same stats (except damage) when they have the same model. --Gourra (talk) 13:39, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Agree with Gourra. I've tested which weapons that are identical in model, manufacturer, level, and devoid of any extras. The smg's only differed in looks and one had more damage. --Edit-- Oh just got a pair of h.guns, same deal again. --Freedom5515 14:52, 7 November 2009

Seperating the Info

It seems three different things are inserted into this Weapon by prefix article, weapon series, weapon prefix, and model numbers, is it possible we could seperate these on different pages, or at least seperate them through H3s, so we have all this information more organized. Also, could we put a link on the weapon page to this, as some might want to know this kind of info, and as far as I could tell, there weren't any links to this page except in the forum. Or like I started to, but was reverted, put these on their respective weapon pages, and cut the category listing of all known guns onto another page, that way we have one page dedicated to info about the weapon (that is linked from the weapons page), and then a link on that page to known weapons of that class. I find the meanings behind the numbers and names a lot more meaningful than a few of the many possible weapons, with unique weapons (boss drops) being the exception. Majora Kalasa 11:02, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's hard to say how a weapon is, as the three things you mentioned affects how the weapon works. There's some prefixes that are always on just one weapon, so they could just stay there, and the general ones at the bottom. A manufacturer heading could be added that says how the model affects how the weapon works.

I think it's a good idea to only add the weapons who are special, such as Sledge's Shotgun and Patton, and let the other weapons that are generated get deleted. Sadly, that's the only way this will work, with even weapons of the same manufacturer and name having the same stats, the only difference being their quality. That's what I'm striving for with the Weapons by prefix article.

I could add it to the MediaWiki:Sitenotice that people shouldn't add any more weapons that are randomly generated, and only the named and unique ones. But I'll have to hear from the rest of the community before I do something like that. --Gourra (talk) 11:17, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I personally agree with that. -- Foxpound 11:39, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Well I know they all affect what stats a weapon has, but they are all different things, much like Foxpound hits on the nomenclature, there are parts to a name that are all different, and I think they need to be separated on this list, as it makes it look a lot nicer, though it may be harder to find out what each part of the name does as far as the weapon goes, it is still a lot nicer looking, and far better for those who are actually interested in these kinds of things. Like how in the shotgun category, we have Angry (suffix 1), Scattergun (suffix 2), and SPR10 (model number) which one weapon could have all 3 of these, meaning we should separate them by these kind of categories, I can start this, just I don't want to see it reverted because someone disagrees with that kind of separation, the movement to weapon pages discussion can come at a later date, though I still think it should be done.

The only thing that bothers me though, is the model number, just because these would take the most time trying to get, as I have a feeling there a more of these than any of the suffixes.--Majora Kalasa 20:40, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'm all for doing that; for example there would be several headings like "Manufacturers", "Models", "1st suffix" and 2nd suffix", with maybe the odd heading like "Other" where there would be these C etc. --Gourra (talk) 22:51, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

One thing I have noticed though when doing some studying of weapons in vendors (due to the high amount of white rarities), is that the model number doesn't have any effect on the weapon stats, but it does have an effect on the visuals, I've found two RV11 Revolver (that was the whole name) one had a scope and +50% Reload Speed (Tediore) and the other just had -8% Recoil Reduction (Dahl), but I do know they looked similar, leading me to believe, that model number only has an effect on the basic appearance of the weapon.--Majora Kalasa 23:05, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the model number definitely doesn't have to do with anything else than looks. I found two Eridian cannons with the exact same stats and level requirement, the only difference being that one was 10100 and the other 10110, which made them look different. --Gourra (talk) 23:24, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the "look" of a weapon does affect some stats like reload speed accuracy and clip size, but there are too many model numbers to list here. --Saphireking65 00:08, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why though it should be kept on three different articles, while it could be all kept in one and the same article, making it easy to browse? Maybe I've missed something. --Gourra (talk) 23:52, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I put it back all on one page, the list was just kinda long when I put it all on one page, and will only get long as we add to it, because I know some of the names are missing from the list.

As for appearance, yes longer barrels do add up to stat differences, but Im guessing their is a base model setup in the game, and once the stats are generated for the weapon, the engine modifies certain parts of the gun to match with the increase or decrease in stats of the base gun. In other words, modelers created a gun, and setup certain areas that could modified to make it look more powerful, but the engine adjusts how much it is modified based on the end stats of the gun.--Majora Kalasa 00:17, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Weapons Nomenclature

I've tried to gather a lot of information on the weapons recently, especially in the early game, as it's a good place to see a lot of "base" gear. What occured to me is that the manufacturer's name should be considered the prefix (it gives some basic bonuses), then the model name is just that, a name (think dagger, long sword, mace, etc.), and then the suffixes combination, giving the meat of the modifiers.

For example, the RF4 listed on the page is just the model name. Then you have the S&S or Tediore RF4: the first comes with +Magazine Size and +Damage, the second with +Reload Speed. I've seen both in two versions (4 guns total then), and they seem to randomly get a Weapon Zoom, so this seems unrelated to any prefix or suffix. The two S&S also have the Nasty suffix, which could be responsible for the +Damage. To be sure, one could search for a simple "S&S RF4 Repeater" (if that exists). To sum up:

Weapon Name = <Manufacturer> [<Manufacturer Tier>] <Model> <Suffix_1> <Suffix_2>

Now there are indeed those strange "C" or "B" really simple suffix. They could be manufacturer specific, and indicate a slightly improved version of the base weapon (i.e. start with 10-12 base damage instead of 7-9). That's only an assumption though.

Also note that I've seen (at least once) a weapon with a faster reload speed that wasn't listed on its card. I think it was a Rolling Sniper Rifle, and I could reload it in half the normal time without any mention of it on the card. Could be a bug, indeed, could also indicate a hidden property (the modifiers area on a card is only 4 lines long).

I also agree with Majora Kalasa, all this information can give a lot more meaning to the weapons one can find and we should organize the page as such (and maybe rename it to "Weapon Classification", or something along those lines). -- Foxpound 11:39, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Why was Suffix_1 and Suffix_2 settled on instead of simply Prefix and Suffix? I know it seems odd to call it Prefix if things come before it, but the final word for the gun name tends to be the "type" of gun, and the second to final word tends to be a prefix title for said "type" of gun. Like, a "Thumper" is the "type" of SMG, and a prefix of "Double" indicates a variant of the basic Thumper SMG type. -- Eno Khaon 12:39, November 4, 2009 (PST)

I thought the same thing at first, but the two suffixes at the end, and the prefix all affect stats (as well as manufacturer tier to a degree) where as the model number, does not, making it seem like the root, and not suffix 2. For instance, an RV11 Bloody Revolver, and an RV11 Swift Viper, would look quite a bit alike if you discount the color, despite being 2 different types of revolvers, where as if you compare a RV11 Bloody Revolver to a RV30 Bloody Revolver, there would be quite a difference visually (barrel lengths might even be different despite having the same damage output and such like that). Regardless, maybe it can go either way, but this seemed to make more sense after awhile.--Majora Kalasa 21:04, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, that does make sense. I guess what it boils down to then is if how the gun looks is what matters or how it behaves (while two Thumpers might look very different, they tend to perform similarly). Rather, that would determine which base part of the gun weapon info would focus on (its model number and so appearance, versus its final suffix and so its general firing characteristics); I mean, I could be off base, and weapon model might have larger performance similarity than the final suffix... Regardless, I still personally feel Prefix and Suffix and more worthwhile terms than two numbered Suffixes, but I'm not going to change the entry just because of my personal preference. -- Eno Khaon 13:17, November 4, 2009 (PST)

Looks like there is a part we missed, noticed then when looking at the standard revolvers in the vender, some had no suffix 1 nor the right manufacturer to change their fire rates, yet somehow they were different, RV series had 1.3 Fire Rates, yet the DL series had 1.0 Fire Rates. This leads me to believe that Model is actually two seperate parts, [Model][Model Number], Model actually affecting the stats, while model number is actually the model, for example, a DL1 and an RV1 are actually going to look similar, but have slightly different stats. So start collecting letters.--Majora Kalasa 23:06, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

It may be even worse than you think. You missed material grades. Adding the info on that now. Also, when digging through the localization files, I found that apparently Gearbox uses the term prefix. See gd_weap_shared_materialparts.int for some examples. -- Eno Khaon 23:58, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Flavor Text Weapons

Does anyone else think they are limited to certain manufacturers, I know on the weapon page like, for example, revolvers (I get a lot of them what can I say), some are listed like Atlas Chimera or Dahl Anaconda, and Im starting think, any weapon with flavor text, is actually unique to that manufacturer, which goes along with something else Im seeing, the model is actually different with each manufacturer, the fire rate is the only thing that stays the same across the board except for the obvious manufacturers, but accuracy and certain suffixes only come with certain models, for example, I dont think I have seen a Liquid sniper, that isnt on a PPZ model, maybe even the same for wrath, or Swift Laws, always see them on AX models.--Majora Kalasa 20:12, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Flavor text weapons (and so their suffix) are manufacturer unique, there's no question there. Some prefixes (like Liquid, or Plywood, or Weaksauce) also seem to be manufacturer unique (correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm far less certain in this regard, but so far it has held true for the guns I've scrutinized). -- Eno Khaon 20:19, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Not neccessarily manufacturer unique (some might be, like swift or the obvious plywood), but some might be model unique, like Equalizers for example will only be on EQ model Revolvers, DEF on Shotguns for the Defender series, or Liquid being unique to only PPZ model snipers.--Majora Kalasa 02:09, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Just for the record, I actually found a non-PPZ Liquid. It's an LB. I can upload a picture somewhere if you'd like. I'm guessing Liquid can be a prefix for either semi-auto Sniper Rifle. -- Eno Khaon 05:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Guess we will have to split up prefixes and titles then, to reflect semi-auto rifles, and machine pistols, since it does seem they are affected by seperated nomenclature, the only thing is, legendaries, do they affect both, or just one side?--Majora Kalasa 18:55, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

The "legendaries" are also limited in the same way. -- Eno Khaon 19:48, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Debug Display and Terms

Debug display command: dbm_ToggleShowDebug

The terms the game uses for "Suffix 1" and "Suffix 2" are Prefix and Title, respectively. Other than that, it looks like our terms match up, more or less. What're we're calling "Model" I think is the Body of the gun, and the "Model Number" is an amalgamation of other gun part values. -- Eno Khaon 06:40, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Revolver - prefix type 1: Bloody

Anyone know if this is just a bug? I have 2 revolvers with the Bloody prefix but one of em shows +57% while the other shows -47% damage. The one with -47% has a higher damage when regular whites but nowhere near +47% either. Not sure how to update the page for this one. --Freedom5515 14:52, 7 November 2009

More testing needs to be done on the actual percentage, but depends on the title, the model, manufacturer, and the random stats sometimes thrown in there (I think model numbers has something to do with how many random things are messed with) you will sometimes get varied damage, despite being the same level, and the same prefix.--Majora Kalasa 18:30, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Body Type 6

I got a Tediore Equalizer with regenerating ammo, and its body type is gd_weap_revolver_pistol.Body.body3_tediore_Equalizer, not gd_weap_revolver_pistol.Body.body6. This would be why EQ slipped through my testing - its body type didn't follow that pattern; rather, it was subset.

All Prefixes are decided by the bodytype, this being no exception. The EQ prefix is strictly determined by the body type being body3_tediore_Equalizer, irrespective of stats. I was able to get the EQ prefix on a Jakobs revolver in this way, and voila - it had ammo regeneration. Therefore, this isn't tied down to Tediore guns, although this bodytype should never appear on non-Tediore guns generated by the game. If it appears elsewhere, it was obviously hacked in.

Therefore, it's hard to figure out whether "Body Type 6" is really an actual, whole new bodytype, or if we go by the code, it's technically a subset of, in this case, Body Type 3.

More testing needs to be done. We must determine if the EQ prefix ever appears on guns WITHOUT ammo regeneration, or if it's strictly limited to regenerating Equalizers. We also need to determine where we're going to put this - as Body Type 6, or as a subset of Body Type 3 as the code indicates.

For the record, based on my initial one-gun test as mentioned above, the EQs have a higher damage than Body Type 5, but fire rates about identical with a Body Type 3. No idea about recoil - this gun didn't have a measurable recoil percentage I could use to check that - but if my notes are correct, a Body Type 3 gun will always have the lowest recoil, while a Body Type 5 will have slightly higher recoil. --Dark Pulse 15:16, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Like many of the flavor text weapons, they are restriced in generation to certain manufacturers (Tediore makes all the ammo regen weapons, and they will only be found as such unless hacked). Defenders work in the same way, they always have that model type, DEF.--Majora Kalasa 18:21, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I figured that was the case, but I just wanted to be 100% sure. I'll reword Body Type 6 so that it's a little clearer. Do you know if the subclassing for shotguns was similar to how it is for Revolvers? (e.g; was a DEF shotgun's body something like gd_weap_combat_shotgun.Body.body3_tediore_Defender?) As I only have one regenerating weapon (I sold/gave most of mine away since my Support Soldier already has ammo regen) and weapon creators don't really exist yet per se, we have to pool resources. I might not have it, but I'm sure someone out there does for now.

Be on the lookout for other ammo regenerating weapons, as well. --Dark Pulse 13:04, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

I dont know what file it came from, as I do not have the PC version, or else I would have looked up half this stuff already, hopefully Ill be fixing that problem soon, but regardless, if someone has made a weapon creator, this would solve a lot of back an forth on the editing page, as well as layout some base stats for several things (like with the PPZ sniper, those are the most common stats I have seen, magazine size being the only clip size I have seen on it) as well as hopefully equations for damage and what happens when a scope is added (for example, I found 2 BLR Cheap Repeaters, one had a zoom, the other did not, the scoped pistol had 3 less damage, 7.5 less accuracy, and .2 slower fire rate, but other than that, the exact same)--Majora Kalasa 02:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I have found a exception to that, the pistol series of regenerators have BLR as their model type, which can be found on other pistols (that dont regenerate), which makes me think BLR is Body Type 3 for pistols (you only had TMP listed, and as a seperate class as Machine Pistol), any possible way you could get the actual order for pistols?--Majora Kalasa 04:57, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I've found an Eridian Cannon and an Eridian Thunder Storm in game that have body 6. At least for the Cannons, only body type 1 caused a damage difference. --Lagged 08:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Eridian prefixes

The ones on this page are wrong, at least for the Eridian Thunder Storms which have names shorter than 3 characters. No one seems to know how the naming patterns work, though. --Lagged 07:20, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

These are not the prefixes you are thinking of, Eridian weapons are unique, in that the model/model number only affect the visual style of the weapon, but as long as they have the same level requirement, and are the same title/prefix, they have the same stats. What is listed on this page, are the manufacturer tiers, when you sort your weapons by brands, the number by "Eridian" is the tier (so some might fall under the category Eridian 0010 for example), and these numbers are in fact correct (well, maybe not the level range, that has been a work in progress).--Majora Kalasa 08:21, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I was writing a reply to myself about it when I realized what the number actually referred to. The level requirements are actually only 19, 28, 37, 46, and 49: weapon proficiency causes the range. As far as I can tell, all Eridian weapons are technically one type of gun. There's evidence supporting this, including the fact that different Eridian guns have different model numbers, and that each gun uses a different barrel type. Further, the possible prefixes for the Eridian weapons are the first word of the name (Thunder, Eridian, Wave, Mercurial, Ball), and the possible titles are (Cannon, Lightning, Storm, Blaster).

We've been wracking our heads over how the model numbers actually correspond to the gun, since guns with the same model number can have different stats and gun parts. --Lagged 08:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Like I said, model number only affects the visuals for Eridian weapons, as that has been the only difference between two that I had before, it probably outta be tested, but get two same named Eridian weapons (with exception of the tier) but have different leve requirements, if they look the same, then its true that model numbers for Eridian weapons only affects the visuals. Eridian weapons are actually more unique (Guild Wars style unique, ALWAYS the same stats) than the actual guaranteed drops (which have special names to them all, much like Guild Wars uniques, but unlike GW, they dont follow the stat rules)--Majora Kalasa 20:28, November 9, 2009 (UTC)