Talk:Pay Back

It is unfortunate that the HUD does not indicate when Pay Back is active.

The following experiment would verify the behavior of Pay Back: does it proc only after shields are at a full charge, like Nova shields and Brick's Unbreakable skill, or does it "stack upon itself," whatever that means?

Needed: shock sticky grenades, or a weak shock rocket launcher; a slow, low-capacity shield; the Shock Crystal Cavern with no hostile fauna currently in the vicinity.

Punch a shock crystal cluster, and observe the damage number. Strip your shields by throwing a shock sticky grenade at your feet, then punch the crystal cluster a second time; observe the new number. Wait 15 seconds (long enough for the original Pay Back effect to dissipate); at any time in those 15 seconds, if your shield regenerates above 50%, throw another shock sticky at your feet to strip it again. After 15 seconds, punch the crystal cluster a third time, observing this final number.

If Pay Back only activates from a full shield charge, the third number will be the same as the first.

Goetter 02:32, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed not working

Tested it at all 5 ranks with the method listed above, there was no change in damage.

To clarify: Payback doesn't seem to activate at all. I was hitting for 206 damage with before and after fully draining my shields, as well as draining from half to zero, and at all 5 ranks.

A simpler test

I took a simpler approach to the proposed testing method, since I am too lazy to round up shock grenades etc. This is on the PC, patch 1.41.

Initially, I took a Berserker with 5/5 Pay Back and 5/5 Unbreakable just outside Fyrestone. Cleared the area of all skags and 2 out of 3 bandits. Stepped into cover to let all on-kill buffs subside. With no buffs active, took a single shot with a non-elemental repeater at the sole remaining bandit: 508 damage. Stoically remained in place until fire from the bandit stripped all shields. Immediately took a second shot: 508 damage. Incidentally, I did not see Unbreakable proc.

In disbelief (as I initially interpreted this as Pay Back is broken!), I then took the character to the yard behind Lucky's and let him get beat down by a couple of bullies. This time, I did see Pay Back activate: shots that inflicted 350 went to 490, exactly as a 40% damage buff should do. What's more, I saw a shield-level bounce from Unbreakable activating that I didn't see in the first test. I can only infer that in the first test, I didn't let the shield regenerate completely.

Took the character back to Fyrestone, let the fauna there respawn, and tested again: take a shot with no on-kill buffs active, let enemies strip shields, take another shot at the same enemy, compare numbers. As at Lucky's, I again saw Unbreakable trigger, and again a damage increase.

From these results, I infer that Pay Back has the same preconditions as Unbreakable. If Unbreakable does not proc, neither will Pay Back. Kind of sloppy tests, but interesting nevertheless. Daemmerung 20:34, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Pay Back definitely works on enemies. I have not tried it on crystals. 20:36, February 25, 2011 (UTC)