Okay, so I`ve now played a game as every character: A level 46 Soldier, A level 50 Siren, A level 31 Hunter, And a level 12 Berseker, (I just started this one) Anyway, I found some trees to be very creative and lucrative, but I found some to be unbalanced, or just plain boring. If you haven`t guessed already, I`m talking about the Hunter and the Siren class. Both the Soldier and the Berseker had very engaging and useful trees that didn`t scream `CHEAP`! However, when I played as the Hunter class, (who I started after my Soldier and Siren) I finally figured out why 75% of people play as Mordecai... He`s just SO EASY!! I have never, EVER played a game with sniping being as easy as it is in Borderlands. Sure, I had sniper rifles on my Soldier file, WHERE I HAD TO COMPENSATE FOR WEAPON SWAY, but this... A five year old could land headshots with him... And if that`s not bad enough, his whole left side of the tree, (In the blue, the SNIPER path) is CRAZY OVERPOWERED. I haven`t put A SINGLE point into any other tree purely because I consider it to be a waste of my skill points. And what isn`t more wasteful than putting points into an ability that, even when maxed, cannot match another in the Sniper path. If you don`t believe me, just look at the final skill in the Sniper path. When maxed, (which I have) you can completely ignore enemy shields 100% of the time!! 100%?? That reminds me of the Hellfire! Pattern anyone?
Anyway, from overpowered, now to overstretched... Ugh, the Siren`s tree. Wow, it`s like the designers ran out of ideas... It`s like everywhere you look there`s ``Chance to Daze Enemies`` and ``Elemental Chance`` and ``Increase Shield Strength``. Wow. I put most of my points into the Assasin path because, honestly, I realized it was the only tree which empowers the Sirens true good ability: Phasewalk. However, even this path couldn`t help save me from the boredom of her tree. I never really was exited to level up; I really didn`t care to spend the skill point...
Wow, enough of my talk... I want to hear what you think! Am I the only one who thinks this way? Please note that I have NOTHING AGAINST people who play as Hunters and I DO NOT HATE the Siren class... I hate people who think their good when they use the Hellfire more! Really, I am only stating my opinion... Not trying to influence yours! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellegro (talk • contribs) 08:04, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
- I do not in anyway find Lilith's skill tree boring. I will admit that Mind Games fully maxed while using an smg or any automatic weapon for that matter, is a little to much. I daze almost everything with that. I personally like her skills for the most part. If you ask me her Phase Walk is the only cool speical ability in the game also. I think if you find a skill takes the fun out of the game or makes it to easy its simple really, just don't spend your points in it SLudge 11:13, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
- I find mordecai to be meh. Sure, you can headshot most of the enemies in a few hits, but I find that gunning them down Combat Riffle style goes just as fast (and is funner). As for His Trespass ability, except for Eridians, is mostly useless. Shields rarelly represent more than 20% of the enemy's overall health. My favorite classes are Roland and Brick. Roland, because he fits my playing style (Ain't nothing like being a commando/heavy gunner). Brick is ... "special"... HappypalIIIk 10:19, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
Maybe it's just my playing style but once I find a good machine gun, I'll use it more than anything else, regardless of character. Found a Glorious Orge with high damage and x2 Explosive early on a PT2 run and used it 90% from there on in. Combined with a Team Ammo Regen and I doubt there's a need for anything else. IMO, it's the weapons you find that dictate the usefulness or "balance" of a skill tree. MeMadeIt 14:28, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
Yes I agree that Mordecai is overpowered and the Sirens stun ability is way over used so I stay away from the siren. The Hunter is relly cheap with his 100% chance to go through sheilds, and the Sirens ability to stun enemies with melee or when she does phase walk 100% of the time so she is only useful against Spiderants. and yes her skill tree is very uncreative, I beleve a more creative skill tree would make me want to play her for more than half of the story.Little Deviant 14:39, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
- I love using Lilith's daze ability in a group. It gives her a fantastic support role. I spec for daze from bullets, not from phasewalk or melee. I only use phasewalk for tactical reambulation. In other words, for quickly flanking an enemy that gets too close. You can keep most unruly targets dazed for the entire fight, making easy pickings for your team mates. Boring for solo play, but my favorite tree for multiplayer. Suicyd King 15:53, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
Yes she is very nice for multiplayer cause the enemies like spiderants and super bad enemies are vare troublesome in large groups so she is good ill admit but i just dont like playing her cause her skill tree needs more diversity.Little Deviant 17:17, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
Lilith requires a bit of strategy, her elementalist tree (the one I'm using) gives most of her default abilities a good DoT effect, a melee than a phase walk has an enemies shield draining and their health draining along with all the bullets I'm spraying at them even the toughest enemy can't stand that much damage going on at once. I like Mordecai, his skill is basically a free homing grenade and his sniper tree is good (OP is going a little far), I personally use his gunslinger tree because some of the pistols in the game are just awesome (that and I can chain like 6 HS on a row of guys isn't bad either). Blackheart1991 18:42, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
As Mordecai I only upgraded gunslinger and rouge. I'm not a huge fan of sniping anyways, but this is a fun way to play. It offers more challenge, but I almost never die thanks to out for blood and bird of prey, plus you can crazy amounts of health/money with swipe. I also stayed mostly in assassin as Lilith, but dabbled in the other trees. I found a pestilant defiler And scoped hellfire, though, so everything is pretty easy. Roland is definately my favorite character, he's just so versatile. You can make completely diferent characters due to the difference between abilities. You don't get that with any other class.-A Fistful of Lightning
Suicyd King raises a good point. The Siren class may be boring in solo, but can be quite tactical in multiplayer. Also, I don`t mean playing as her is boring. If it was, I would have stopped before the 2nd playthrough. I mean her skill tree was really boring. Not a lot to it. Though, I will admit, I did have a lot of fun with her elemental Pheonix ability, but it became near useless once you stopped fighting skags. And, to WARN THOSE WHO MIGHT WANT TO USE THIS ABILITY: The flame that surrounds her body WILL damage her surroundings and this means ELEMENTAL BARRELS. She WILL set them off and they WILL kill you!! How dumb!!
Though I will give credit to those who use the Hunter`s gunslinger path, (It is MUCH less powerful than the other two paths) I still can`t swallow any comment that says he isn`t the cheapest character. It can be summed up in one word: Trespass!! To the comment above that said that a shield only covers 20% of the enemies health. This may be true, but if your pitted against a Superbad Crimson Lance Engineer, your gonna want to take them down as quickly as possible!! Whether it be 5% or 50%, it doesn`t matter! Really, it`s the 100% chance of Trespass that makes it so cheap. If it were like 50%, or hell, even 70% the outcome would be much, MUCH different. Hhhh.... I dunno. The Soldier and the Berseker still have the most balanced trees in my opinion.... Tellegro
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Reply : Unbalanced skill trees
All round it isnt That are unballanced but that it is how you use them
E.g. EVERY1 uses hunter as a sniper BUT i found a very nice (SUPERAWESWOMECRAZYHEADSHOTLOLCATYOUREOWNED) Pistol and for the next hmmm.. i dont know 13 lv's i was getting headshots with that pistol and the gunslinger tree.
Then many people tell me 'NO, YOU HAVE TO BE SNIPER AS A HUNTER...or whatever you want to replace SNIPER and HUNTER with.
It isnt what ballance the skills are or nuffed or that bulshit..
Just how you use it.
That is what skill trees are for... Everyone just claims that cirtain ones are nurffed.. but they just are to noob to know how to use..
NOW some skill types need combination like soldier as a medic or berserker as a tank.. you may need combination unless you are co-op with people.
I'm not one to complain in most situations, but dang. Dude, if you've got a problem with the game GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE. --Doctorgray 15:06, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, hey... I`m sorry, but I think that people are misunderstanding me, (And I think I know why)... When I typed things in CAPITAL LETTERS, it didn`t mean I was shouting or anything, I was just trying to add emphasis on certain words, like we do when we talk. My mistake was not seeing that there was an italic button. Like it says on my home page, I am a major nooob when it comes to wikis... I`m sorry everyone, I probably looked like an ass. I LOVE this game, and I honestly have no problem with it. I was only wondering if anybody else had the same opinion as me... Tellegro 18:27, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
Eh i think its pretty well balanced except for a few things 1. roland has a very poor action skill when it comes to pvp 2. a siren with high velocity + redemption = MASSIVELY overpowerd combination
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I've always preferred to play as Lilith. As Mordecai, I just Lethal Striked with a melee damage enhancing shotgun through playthrough 1, which was as you'd expect, BORING. With Lilith I use a combination of Controller and Assassin trees to do Phasestriking ALOT. It uses Blackout and Hard To Get to reduce the cooldown of Phasewalk so all you need to do is get 2 kills to recharge Phasewalk. And because I use Phasestrike to exit Phasewalking, it usually gets me a kill, recharging it halfway. It made the game pretty fun for me. I have the build on my userpage. Also, Brick infinite Berserk chaining is pretty beast. Sweepynoog 20:38, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
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I'm currently playing a lv. 50 siren...and yes, two of her possible 4 Solo spec types are crazy overpowered. Firefly Hellfire Sirens are mostly easy mode. At least they will run into the occasional challenge, such as fire badasses / badmuthas, and if they're stupid about barrels during phoenix...but STILL.
Additionally, a good mercenary build with proper gear is out of control. i used a firefly siren for most of zombie island, and decided to try merc out - when zombies are weak to fire, and i felt it was easier as a mercenary, we have a problem.
Personally, i love running Plaguebearer. Its not an easy mode build, it forces a slightly different playstyle, and its a lot of fun.
My next character will be Berserker, and after that imma roll Mordecai, with bloodwing - sub gunslinger.
For the record, Im a game tester and a fighting game fanatic - i can break games, i can break characters, and then i avoid "top tier" and overpowered crap in lieu of, god forbid, fun. easy wins arent as fun as a challenge where you earn your crap. Hence, ill never use modded gear, and im excessively hesitant to touch dupes. Olaf Redland 00:04, February 21, 2010 (UTC) U know actually i have the 100% ability, and ONLY BULLETS COUNT. Not elemental, not melee, ONLY PURE BULLETS.
I don't understand this thread, primarily for one reason. What do you mean by "unbalanced?" Are certain skills within one tree more powerful than others, making it unbalanced? Are certain trees for one character unequivocally better? Are certain character's trees better than other's? All of the above? The OP seems to have started it on other criteria like "this tree is boring and unimaginative," which does not in any way resemble balance.
Since that point, everyone's taken their different perspectives. Of course, the thread's over a month old and just got bumped back to the front, so I don't the old posters are still really following, but I don't think anyone is talking in the same connotation, so let me just address this about Lilith, who seems to be half the thread (with the other half being Mordecai.)
1. Lilith has two very powerful builds, that are probably overpowered. You can play the game quite well without them, but with the right gear, you destroy with a Hellfire/Firefly or an Anarchy/Mercenary.
2/ There are a ton of great alternatives for setting up Lilith's tree. I've read about or created a ton of perfectly legitimate, unique builds.
3. Many of Lilith's skills are defined by Phasewalk. She has no unique weapon skills. In some sense, that makes her bland. However, in reality, it just makes her versatile. Her skills, combined with her mods (which MUST be considered in any discussion about talent trees,) are rather potent. In that sense, the governing theme is elemental damage -- she has a mod for damage on 3 of 4 types, plus a generic one. There aren't a ton of skills that don't fit into any of these builds. Striking, Venom, Enforcer, Resilience...and I *can* find a use for any of them, if I'm using a particular build.
4. In terms of individual trees, they're all useful. Internally, they may not mesh real well.
-- Controller forces you to take +shield strength to get to the real stuff, since Striking's pretty bad. I'd put Dramatic Entrance in Striking's place and make up a new second tier talent if I could. Without Striking, you wouldn't say that Controller was overwhelmed with Daze effects. (Sidenote: Daze is ***NOT*** a Stun. A stun means your opponent is frozen and can do nothing -- paralyzed -- whereas Daze merely slows an opponent's actions considerably.)
-- Elemental is the most underwhelming of the three. Aside from Phoenix, there isn't much exciting. That isn't to say it's not useful, but I've seen a ton of arguments over Radiance being useful, and nobody thinks Resilience is, so tier 2 stinks. Venom is usually considered the worst skill overall. So you've got Radiance, and you've got Phoenix, and two other borderline skills. Yeah, it could use a little work, however the reason this tree isn't so hot is largely because the mechanics on elemental weapon damage is so FUBAR.
-- Assassin is a screwball tree because the left side and right side are very distinct. The right-side all fits with "kill stuff from phasewalk" and the left side is "mow 'em down." Plus, the left side is either ok or poor, and the right side is ok or great, and the result is people tend to stay down the right side, except for maybe High Velocity. (Anyone who picks Slayer over Silent Resolve doesn't realize how powerful SR is.) And then the final talent is a very limited-use skill in the sense that only one type of character will try to specifically get it, and no others will want it.
So yes, if you want to argue that Lilith's trees and unbalanced with regards to each other, I guess I can give you that, but be careful what exactly you're trying to say. I've seen a lot of misinformation or skewed opinions up top. --Azuarc 18:04, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
P.S. What's with Wikia formatting being so screwed up on numbered and bulleted lists? I had to manually type those...