Forums: Index > Watercooler > The whine-asses on the GBX forums..

Are bitching that they hope the new patch fixes the armory and craw glitches. Apparently this has been a pet peeve of some of the guys over there for some time. Just out of curiousity, is anyone here bothered by either of these, as far as others exploiting them? I mean they're both so obvious, I have to believe that the devs put them in intentionally in order to give people who only play single player a way to beat craw and get a better haul from the armory. GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 05:14, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I think it breaks the game even more than the leveling system already has. As it is now, it's incredibly easy to hit level 61 through storyline missions alone. Giving everyone free weapons is the reason why pearlescents aren't even rare anymore, and "weapon shops" are full of near-maxed weapons. (It used to be that white sucks, blues and greens are average, purples are good, oranges are hard to come by and pearlescents are rare. Now nobody even touches blues, and purples get a passing glance probably knowing that yours are hard to beat.) The Armory was not meant to be cleaned out in singleplayer, which is Gearbox's way of encouraging multiplayer. Craw is not meant to be beaten easily for the same reason, but it is still possible to kill in singleplayer without abusing the glitch. Having said that, I'm not going to kick up a fuss just because. I think we're all victims of the broken system at this point, and there's nothing Gearbox can do to fix it.  nagy   talkScorpio-fulllog     05:31, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'm with you for the most part, but the glitches alone aren't the reason for the relative commonality of pearls or the abundance of god-tier oranges. It's duping and willowtree that you should be thanking for that. I doubt anything would be different at all without the glitches, really, being that it only takes one guy with willowtree to make a legit construct and start the duping chain for any given weapon. I'm willing to bet that about 30-40% of the people who play the game rarely play online or even at all. I think the glitches were just Gearbox's way of giving people who don't play in groups as much bang for their buck as the online peeps get.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 05:37, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

That too, but I was hoping to keep modding out of it so that the rest of the thread won't decay into farming vs constructing. Gearbox said the patch is going to fix something, so my fingers are crossed as to what it will be.  nagy   talkScorpio-fulllog     05:47, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well really, it's not even modding per se. It's duping more than anything else. Even if they come out with some crazy new rarity level that has a 1:100,000 drop rate, and only a few people find them within the first few days of playing, those guns will be around the world and back within two weeks. Farming and modding may accelerate this, but only to an extent. Really for any kind of real economy to take shape in Borderlands, they're going to have to do away with duping.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 06:04, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Irresponsible modders/constructors are the biggest problem; duping helps spread the nuisance around, especially since there will continue to exist a large population of well-meaning people who dupe said constructs while being oblivious as to their nature, in addition to those who knowingly spread illegit stuff. Cutting modding short will remedy that problem, while dealing with the best legit finds being spread around would require dealing with duping. Setting the game to automatically save when a player is kicked would fix this, but would still be able to be circumvented if a player copied their save file or used WillowTree.  Dr Hax headshot  Skeve613ask Dr. Hax  06:01, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

The only way is to store all data server-side, but that would mean getting rid of Gamespy eventually.  nagy   talkScorpio-fulllog     06:07, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

They could encrypt the Save Files. Depends on how much they want to spend to keep these files from being edited. -- MeMadeIt 13:16, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

That would also mean killing offline play, which is a terrible idea. Nereidalbel 08:12, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Some games like the Battlefield series have single player modes that still require you to login to the main server to retrieve your character's "saved data". -- MeMadeIt 13:16, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

While I do think the Craw glitch spots are intentional, I no longer think the Armory glitch is. I think the Armory glitch has to do with combining the 'entry' construct with the 'armory' construct and the 'glitch' is just where the two meet and you slip through (clip) that junction. Other game engines have this issue too where you can 'enter' into 'solid' objects like buildings, rocks, dams, etc through various tricks. -- MeMadeIt 13:10, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

In my personal opinion, most of the people registering these complaints on the GBX forums are the ones who played online and got their ridiculous guns themselves and in a legit style. To them, it's unfair that others are able to easily scrape up pearls using a glitch that makes Craw easy mode and without the use of a well-organized party. Essentially, it's the age-old "I put a ton of work into this, reaped my reward, and I want everyone else to work just as hard as I did" theory of entitlement. However... , the quality of weapons is usually lower on single-player mode, so the people who solo-farm won't have better guns compared to someone who farms online with a full party. Sure, you might find a really insane pearl in the Armory... if you feel like doing it 200+ times. No, these two glitches aren't responsible for stealing anyone's "I can haz uber gunz" thunder. That would be the job of Willowtree and the ability to dupe weapons. The ability to construct your own guns and then pass them around to everyone you meet online is the reason everyone has a perfectly capped 248 damage Tsunami, not because of Armory or Craw. Diakonov007 07:01, September 8, 2010 (UTC)Diakonov007

I don't know about you guys but i have never played a (good) game quite as glitchy as BL, I mean Fallout 3 was pretty glitchy, but not as bad a BL, maybe they rushed or there QC team just didn't test it very good, i mean with the Loyalty Cmod, it would have only took, one time of exiting out of the game, and no one caught that pretty lame. i do like to farm the armory on single player, or farm craw, if i could not do that this game would be collecting dust as we speak, in all honesty, maybe they knew but intentially left it in the game, you have to admit it does add replay value, if the armory could not be farmed and craw was like the Destroyer, would you still be playing the game? XBOX GT SinisterNobody64.202.61.10 08:23, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Actually yes, I still would. Just because a broken game gives you more shit, doesn't justify it in any twisted sense other than greed. I'd just farm the Armory with four people going straight for the level 61 chests; Craw and the Destroyer are both horrendously easy.  nagy   talkScorpio-fulllog     10:05, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Facing craw in a in a realistic and difficult fashion would actually allow me to enjoy BL to further extent. Secondly, not having an armory glitch would not bother me in the slightest way. When we first discovered the glitch it was an eye opener and a obvious hit but then i few weeks passed and the entire concept became outdated with craws loot drops. Jesswill89 11:04, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Why not let players play the way they want?.If you like the glitches use them, if you don't then don't. As far as constructed (those that turn out as legit in gearcalc) guns more power to them. I don't have any, but that's only because I haven't gone down that path. I don't have a thing against them . Since gun drops are random, then hard work at harvesting is only rewarded to a degree. I don't understand the big deal other than when you're playing/fighting people that have an unfair advantage. If you don't want modded weapons on your team then watch the other players. Live and let live is not a bad idea.Player8410 18:16, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

I guess it's because some people just can't live with the fact that some people had an easier time getting the weapons that others have put countless hours in to find. Whatever, life isn't fair and it's just a videogame. The only non-emotional, logical opposing stance to this is that it keeps the game from having a real economy, but as I've said several times already on this page, that is more due to duping than glitching or willowtree.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 18:41, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

I've never understood people bitching about modders/glitchers/etc in a non-mmo game. I mean, Borderlands is not an MMO, because it's not massive. I would think that it would be pretty easy to find a core group of people that you can play with that have similar mindsets on glitching, modding, etc. If purists are as hard to come by as I've heard they are, I would think that as soon as a person met one, they'd be on their friends list pretty quick, and eventually it would work itself out...besides, if you really want to blame someone, blame Gearbox: they're the ones that released a game that is so easy to mod. Obviously they knew people were gonna be doing this, and they really don't seem to care. Maybe it's intentional? Maybe they are throwing the modders a bone to keep interest in the game?

I also don't really understand why any kind of persistent game economy would exist, or why one even should for that matter. Based on the randomness of the monetary values attached to certain things, and the fact that the money cap is way too low, and the fact that dying costs everyone differently according to how much money they have, I could see having a real "economy" cause more problems than it's worth. I don't play online with strangers, so I'm probably not the best gauge of the "online environment" with people I don't know, but I just know that if money was actually something that even mattered it would alter the online dynamic in a huge way. Look at any MMO with a persistent economy, and you see all sorts of negative behavior associated with money and earning it. People that won't help each other up if there's even a chance they may die themselves, people grabbing every single thing off the ground to sell to machines, people bitching about spending more ammo than someone else on their team and how they deserve more loot to sell to compensate, etc. Personally, I kinda like the fact that money pretty much goes out the window after the early stuff. One less thing to worry about, you know? And it's just too easy to get ripped off trading weapons, so I don't see how that could substitute.

Do people actually enjoy killing Crawmerax over and over and over again just to get a gun with a few more DPS and maybe one higher elemental effect? If the guns it dropped were actually OMGWTFPWN than I guess I could see it being a pride thing, but so far I've yet to see anything that really blows my hair back - Effedup 02:03, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

I personally don't mind killing Cramerax over and over with other people as long as I find some better gun that can replace another one I own.Nexas14 02:26, September 10, 2010 (UTC)