Has anybody else noticed that some legendaries spawn at a much higher rate than others? For instance: Equilisers, Volcanos, Surkovs, Ravens, and Defilers are all extremely commonly found. Conversely, there are more than a few legendary weapons that I've only found one of, or none at all, like: Trolls, Orions, Ogres, Butchers, etc.
Anybody know why that might be/have some thoughts on the matter?Klatchy 05:13, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
Even though it's supposed to be all random, i think it's the game being evil. I know a lot of people have never found a reaper, but I've found a few, and I still need to find a Tsunami & Stalker, but there are some people who have found tons of them. In the end, it all comes down to luck.
I think the game has a programmed "drop rate". If it's all "random" then there's no reason why I should get 3 hellfires in 3 consecutive chests when I already have 2 in my inventory. I've found 3 cyclops so far, some stupid amount of volcanos, equalizers and cruxes of all kinds, and I've just now started getting defilers. I really can't complain too much though, I did pick up and ogre and a bastard the other day, as well as a butcher. -NOhara24
I have a theory that while there is some sort of programmed rarity like pearecents that it may also depend on your weapon proficencys as i tend to get thing based on how high my profs are in that weapon type and fewer of weapons of lower profs. I do notice that certain gun as the OP described do tend to drop more often despite my profs. I have also noticed that certain characters get certain guns more often than others as well which might play in to the multi player so the more diverse the characters the more types of loot you get. I may be wrong but thats what i have noticed.Veggienater 18:32, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
It's hard to believe that there aren't set Legendaries that drop more than others, I finally found my first Skullmasher yesterday after 30something armory runs, but before that all i found were Volcanos, Hellfires, and Defender shotguns! And they weren't even getting any better! I just seem to find worse and worse Hellfires but 10x worse hahaha. Oh and i've never seen an Invader :[ Koihime Musou 19:12, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah.. I have no prof in SMG, but I always find Hellfires. Huge pistol prof, only ever seen one legit Unforgiven, and it was crap. Never seen a legit Chimaera. Plenty of Equalizers - was using a shock one for a while with Heavy Gunner, as my Support Gunner's ammo regen was somewhat unnecessary. And damn Thanatos - hundreds of light yellow thanatos.. Kinda feels like the crap rares spawn more to make you rely on your class mods, and I guess it does give the game some longevity, in that you don't get the best stuff right off the bat, although it's kinda wierd how I got none of it at the beginning, and now that I've finished the game, still hardly anything really rare.. Maybe this 4th DLC will have better probabilities. It'd be cool if they had something like a roaming crawmerax-grade baddie that spawns somewhere random on the map and wanders so it's hard to find, but maybe has a guaranteed top quality drop.. Maybe some uber-rakk hive sleeping under the sand, that only engages you if you attack it.. I've tried shooting the sleeping rakk hives - they don't seem to notice.. lol WhackyGordon 19:14, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
^Oh man, i always get hundreds of Thanatos hahah. Koihime Musou 19:21, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
I have found at least one of every orange in the game but i have played 15 complete character playthrus with 4 of them being with the Knoxx DLC. only 3 pearecents though.Veggienater 19:28, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
See, that (^) is the kind of excess I don't get. The developers can't possibly have wanted people to play the game that much. That'd be verging on evil.. lmao WhackyGordon 20:01, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
Its not excess, its just fun to play all the characters at least once and the ones i liked i played several times with different skill set ups and of coarse different weapons. just because you didnt doesnt mean its wrong, its just how i played.Veggienater 20:20, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
I have wondered about this many times, and heres what I am guessing. Certain brands seem rarer than others. hyperion, atlas and jakobs seem to be the rarest with tediore and maliwan the most common. Most people that list the guns they have never found seem to come from the same batch, ogres, unforgivens, butchers, invaders trolls and bastards ( i think torgue is a little rarer than vladof and S&S) and everyone finds the same crap guns, still just talking legendaries, and pearls excluded. Favorite manufacturer may play a role too, my hunter was my first character and his brand logo was jakobs and then tediore and then jakobs again. he finds a decent amount of jakobs legendaries, more than my siren (maliwan then torgue) who finds a lot of anarchys and gashers, and hellfires (obviously) while my soldiers main brands were S&S and now atlas. My soldier finds one chimera and one ogre every 10 runs or so, though he finds a bunch of skullmashers too and his sniper prof is only 32. they may suck balls, but they are rarer legendaries. And thanks to the gearcalc I understand the gun generator a little better now too. the jakobs unforgiven is a special barrel 5 that spawns to make it orange, and barrel 5s are rarer to spawn then 1 2 and 3s. skullmashers are special barrel 4s, also rarer than 1 thru 3. cyclops, special scope 5, anacondas, more common but still fairly rare, unique barrel 4, hyperion bitch, a special barrel 5. these are a few examples i can think of off the top of my head. on the flip side, all maliwan oranges get their legendary part from an accessory, which are less rare to get than higher quality barrels bodies or mags, and tediore oranges get theres from a unique body 3 (common). side note, most awesome guns people find are barrel 4 or 5, and faster ROF with good damage guns are typically body 5. i know there are holes in my theory, the atlas ogres special part is an accessory, yet these are rare, same with bastards and trolls etc. my soldier gets better loot than my hunter, who has all maxxed profs, i dont know, i may not have written my thoughts down clear enough.
basically, legendaries that are based off of higher quality barrels bodies and mags seem rarer to me than oranges that spawn based off of accessories and/or lower quality barrels or bodies, for the most part. They call me Hellz Lips 21:48, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
Makes sense - combination of brand based rarity and part based rarity. That would put the Unforgiven pretty high up there on the impossible list lol WhackyGordon 22:16, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
damn, ive been barely awake from the last few days of work and it took me 30 minutes to write out that long diatribe, thank you for summarizing whacky, haha They call me Hellz Lips 22:41, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
I have had not as bad luck as i thought, well only because i have access to the farmory, i have found several of my first orange guns in the farmory, the invader pistol like 3 of them, striker, skullmasher, unforgiven, and a few others, and i use to have problems finding and alien guns, i find to many now, but i still have yet to see not even one, reaper or Ogres, i cannot find a good defiler to save my life. XBOX GT SinsterNobody22.214.171.124 03:16, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
I used to believe that the weapon drops had something to do with weapon proficeincies, but honestly, weapons drops don't seem to be affected by that at all. The following, is a table I created mapping (in my experience), the rarity of different legendary weapons based on how many times they've: a) shown up in chests. b) dropped off of random baddies. c) dropped off of Crawmerax.
|Extremely Common||Very Common||Common||Uncommon||Rare||Very Rare||Extremely Rare|
|Tediore Equalizer||Maliwan Volcano||Maliwan Firehawk||Torgue Gasher||Jakobs Unforgiven||S&S Draco||Hyperion Reaper|
|Maliwan Defiler||Vladof Surkov||Dahl Wildcat||Atlas Troll||Dahl Penetrator|
|Maliwan Hellfire||Tediore Protector||Tediore Savior||Jakobs Striker||Atlas Cyclops|
|S&S Thanatos||Dahl Raven||Torgue Bastard||Maliwan Rhino||Hyperion Invader (pistol)|
|Vladof Revolution||Atlas Ogre||Vladof Mongol||Hyperion Butcher|
|Tediore Guardian||Torgue Violator||S&S Orion||Atlas Chimera|
|S&S Gemini||Dahl Hornet||Hyperion Destroyer||Vladof Vengeance|
|Tediore Defender||Vladof Hammer||Hyperion Invader (rifle)||Atlas Hydra|
|Dahl Bulldog||S&S Crux||Torgue Cobra||Hyperion Bitch|
|Dahl Anaconda||Maliwan Crux (Plague)||Jakobs Skullmasher|
|Torgue Friendly Fire||Hyperion Nidhogg|
|Vladof Rebel||Torgue Redemption|
Diakonov007 06:49, August 9, 2010 (UTC)Diakonov007
That's an extremely interesting table, Diakonov; did you actually keep stats of all your finds, or is it just based on your perceptions of your finds? Either way, it tallies pretty closely with my perception of the relative rarity of the Legendary guns. On gut feel I'd have put the Defiler into your "Common" class rather than "Very Common", and maybe the Thanatos into "Extremely Common"; and the Ogre into "Rare" or maybe even "Very Rare". But otherwise it seems about right to me. Certainly the Equalizer is common as dog shite, and Reapers are very hard to find, especially good ones with scopes. And of course there are the obscure variants, like the Unforgiven with the masher accessory - I've only found a handful of those and only two of them have had decent scopes, but the wait was worth it, they are just fantastic weapons. Outbackyak 16:00, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
Love the table, Most of it is the same to my legendary drop rates i've noticed. Except I've gotten wayyyy too many Hyperion Bitches and i've never seen a Nidhogg :[ Pretty much sums it up though :) There really must be a higher drop rate for certain legendaries. Koihime Musou 18:06, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
Nice table. It's as acurate as an approximation can get. Of course, like everybody, I would switch some of the guns around but only by one column - so nothing extreme. Also, the idea about which part makes a legendary is intriguing and should probably be considered when farming. Tellegro 18:32, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
Good job about that table. Maybe it is madness... but if someone would want to do some advanced stats: I'm leaving here info about how many of each Orange weapons in found after 90 hours of gameplay (all DLCs, 99% time as Siren, 5 farmory runs):
10 - Tediore Equalizer | 6 - Maliwan Defiler | 5 - Vladof Surkov, Maliwan Volcano, S&S Thanatos, Tediore Savior | 4 - Dahl Wildcat | 3 - Maliwan Crux (Plague), Jakobs Unforgiven, Maliwan Hellfire, Tediore Guardian, S&S Crux | 2 - Maliwan Firehawk, Torgue Gasher, Dahl Raven, Vladof Revolution, S&S Gemini, Dahl Hornet, Hyperion Destroyer, Dahl Hornet, Hyperion Invader (rifle), Hyperion Nidhogg, Vladof Rebel, Vladof Hammer, Tediore Defender, Torgue Cobra, Dahl Bulldog | 1 - Tediore Protector, Jakobs Striker, Atlas Cyclops, Hyperion Invader stol), Hyperion Butcher, Torgue Violator, S&S Orion, Vladof Vengeance, Jakobs Skullmasher | 0 - Maliwan Rhino, Atlas Ogre, Vladof Mongol, Atlas Chimera, Atlas Hydra - 0, Hyperion Bitch, Dahl Anaconda, S&S Draco, Hyperion Reaper, Atlas Troll, Dahl Penetrator, Torgue Bastard, Torgue Friendly Fire, Torgue Redemption NBlastMax 20:43, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments. The table was essentially based off of a (rough) tally a few friends and I kept after about 100 Crawmerax farming runs. I'm sure we missed a few here and there, but overall and in combination with my previous findings from both Craw and Farmory, the table outlines exactly how often I've seen those legendaries drop. If I can get around to it in the next few days, I'll try to do a layout for the number of specific drops after around 100 Craw kills. Diakonov007 08:12, August 10, 2010 (UTC)Diakonov007
Alright, for anyone interested, I've finally thrown a table together listing the number of legendaries dropped after exactly 120 Crawmerax kills. I only recorded item drops from solo runs played offline. Items from online and split-screen play were not included in this list. Hope some of you find this helpful to get a realistic picture of how often some of these weapons drop. For the table, I'm including the total number of each specific legendary found during the 120 kills in addition to the number of each legendary dropped in a single kill. The last 4 slots in the chart (separated from the rest) are for the random pearlescent guns that happened to drop during the solo farming runs. Total number of guns (if I counted right, including pearlescents) = 478
|Weapon Name||Overall Number Found||Max Number in a Single Kill|
|Hyperion Invader (rifle)||6||1|
|Hyperion Invader (pistol)||9||1|
|Torgue Friendly Fire||12||1|
Nope, your eyes aren't fooling you... not a single Reaper in 120 runs. In addition, yes (sadly) I did have one kill where Craw dropped five equalizers. I died a little inside. Diakonov007 09:27, August 18, 2010 (UTC)Diakonov007
It's wierd that the Hellfire and Defiler are some of the most common weapons, yet are two of my favourites. They both have the potential of being extremely good (take my 1144 Defiler, for example) but you get loads of them that are rubbish. 10:41, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
- ^^^ Add Volcano too; almost every time I killed Crawmerax, he dropped at least 3 Volcanoes beside other good common legendaries (Equalizer, Defiler, Hellfire...). 11:07, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
I have personaly only found two reapers ever, one was in the original game in 2.5 from newhaven before the patch and the other off Craw. I agree that i find many hellfires and defilers that arent very good but when you do they are beasts. I have a 207 damage 12.5 f.r. hellfire, 305 damage 4.5 f.r thumper hellfire, but ussualy only in the 130-140 range damage. I just found an 1186 damage 1.9 f.r. defiler, but ussualy only in the 600 damage range with 6 shot mag though. I too have had up to 5 equalizers drop from Craw in one drop. As for the volcano i find them alot too in the 700 damage range but found one in the upper 900 damage with 0.8 f.r.( sorry not tring to sound braggy). Veggienater 11:39, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
Don't worry, mine are all better :B11:55, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
That cool, i havnt had the Knoxx DLC that long and have only done about 160 runs on Craw, so these are just my early finds! ;) Veggienater 12:02, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
I find that while farming Craw gives you a larger amount of good stuff, only the Armory gives you excellent stuff.12:05, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
That's great work, Diakonov! I've actually been doing something similar, inspired by your original table of relative rarity, and also because I wanted to quantify how much better the loot was with 2, 3 or 4 players, compared to a single player. I've been doing 30 runs of each (for a total of 120 runs), using up to 4 Sirens (though I'm actually playing solo - the others are just dummies in the staging area). I've been recording all the legendaries, as well as how many items vs guns you get on average per run. It's not complete yet, but I'll post the results here when I've finished (probably in a day or two). I've also not yet found a single Reaper, nor have I found a Rhino, or a Redemption. And I'll see your 5 Equalizers and raise you 5 Defilers, all without scopes! That was with 3 players, so I guess you win (or is that lose?) Outbackyak 16:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
@Bukkithead - that's a good way to put it. I too am a huge fan of the Defiler, but finding a truly good one can often times be a challenge. I would say of the 21 defilers I found, maybe 3 or 4 were actually decent statswise.
@Outbackyak - thanks for the feedback! I look forward to reading any results of your own tests and data as well.
Diakonov007 22:26, August 18, 2010 (UTC)Diakonov007
"More Players = Better Loot"? Apparently not!
Here are the results of my Craw-farming experiment (inspired by Diakonov's work). I wanted to not only find the relative abundance of all the legendary weapons, but to see if the "More players = better loot" claim was true. My method was to do 30 runs each with 1, 2, 3, and 4 Sirens, for a total of 120 runs.This was offline, as a LAN game on my PC - with 4 Sirens it was just barely playable at minimum graphics settings. (NOTE: all sirens were wearing +2FRI class mods, so these results may differ for players without these mods. All the Sirens had completed every DLC3 mission - they are just clones of my main Siren.)
I soloed Craw with one Siren while the others waited in the staging area. I then picked up every weapon and item Craw dropped, and recorded the total number of weapons & items, and recorded each Legendary weapon by type and number. I then sold (almost) all of them and rinsed and repeated.
In total I picked up 13,754 items and weapons over the 120 runs, and found 678 Legendary weapons and 3 Pearlescent weapons.
If you graph out the totals for the 4 different types of runs for items it's an almost perfectly straight line: you get about 375 more items for each added Siren over the 30 runs. On the other hand, for weapons the line gets steadily steeper: that is, weapon numbers increase by an increasing amount as you add Sirens: with 2 sirens I got an extra 403 weapons compared with 1 Siren; with 3 I got an extra 527 weapons compared with 2 Sirens; with 4 I got an extra 635 weapons compared with 3 Sirens. But, (and it's a big but), this is NOT true for the numbers of Legendary weapons I found in each type of run. (NOTE: this table does not include the three cyan weapons I found, only Orange rarity weapons and the glitched Draco and Penetrator)
|L.W. totals||Average L.W.s per run||%age of total weapons found||%age increase per Siren added (compared to one less Siren)|
I only got a small increase in total L.W. numbers going to 2 Sirens, then a big jump going to 3 Sirens, and another small jump going to 4 Sirens. Note that as a percentage of total weapons found it was actually best with a single Siren, and worst with 4 Sirens! This was not what I expected at all: where's the "more players = better loot"? More loot, yes; I did get more L.W.s on average with each successive Siren added, but better? I think not. I was expecting to get more Legendaries as a percentage of the total weapons, or possibly to get rarer Legendary weapons; I got neither.
I'm pretty sure these figures are robust - 30 runs should be plenty, and when I initially looked at the data after 20 runs the figures were very similar. There is a lot of variability in numbers of L.W. found in each run, but it should average out over 30 runs, shouldn't it?
I'll have to leave it here for now (got to be up for work in the morning). I'll add the table for the legendary weapons found tomorrow - they are not dissimilar to Diakonov's results. Outbackyak 15:48, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
Here as promised is the table for my Legendary Weapon finds off my Craw farming experiment:
|Weapon Name||1 Siren||2 Sirens||3 Sirens||4 Sirens||Total||Max Number in a Single Kill|
|Hyperion Invader (rifle)||2||0||0||3||5||1|
|Hyperion Invader (pistol)||0||1||1||0||2||1|
|Torgue Friendly Fire||1||3||0||2||6||1|
Here's a graph of the 4-run total for each weapon type, sorted by number. Click it to view it full size.
I've also taken the liberty of graphing Diakonov007's finds, because my earlier comment about our results being similar was incorrect. The relative frequency of weapon finds is quite different, and the gradient from highest to lowest is also very different. I've no idea why this should be so - +2FRI mod? Single player vs multi-player? Chance? Who knows? But it appears that Diakonov gets a much higher incidence of the relatively rare Legendaries than I did. If it is to do with me using the +2FRI mod then it appears to work in reverse!
For good measure I've also graphed our combined runs:
So what does this all mean? I think we can say for certain that some Legendaries are much more common than others, and that the Equaliizer is ludicrously common, while the Reaper is rare as rocking horse sh!t. Other than that I don't know - the whole experiment has raised more questions than it answers. Any comments? Outbackyak 07:12, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
More Crawmerax Run Stats - this time, without +2FRI mods
I thought it was worth repeating my earlier Crawmerax runs, using the identical procedure but this time with the Sirens NOT wearing +2FRI class mods. I used the exact same methodology - the only difference was that none of the Sirens were wearing +2FRI class mods. Here are the results:
In total I picked up 13,633 items and weapons over the 120 runs, and found 733 Legendary weapons and 2 Pearlescent shields and 1 Pearlescent weapon. This compares with my original runs where I found 13754 items and weapons, 678 Legendary weapons and 3 Pearlescent weapons. That's right - I found 8% MORE Legendaries while NOT using the +2FRI mod, even though I found slightly less items and weapons in total. Statistically significant? Don't ask me, ask a statistician. Myself, I don't think that the +2FRI does a damn thing for finding more Legendaries. It's possible that you might get better quality legendaries when wearing it, but there's no way to tell that from my data as I merely recorded numbers of weapons, not their item card stats.
Results for numbers of items was similar to the first set of runs - an approximately equal increase as you add Sirens, while weapon numbers increase by a greater amount as you add Sirens: with 2 sirens I got an extra 398 weapons compared with 1 Siren; with 3 I got an extra 492 weapons compared with 2 Sirens; with 4 I got an extra 623 weapons compared with 3 Sirens. These results are very similar to my first results. The results for Legendary weapons found are quite a bit different from my first runs.
|L.W. totals||Average L.W.s per run||%age of total weapons found||%age increase per Siren added (compared to one less Siren)|
In my first runs I got a small percentage increase in Legendaries when going to 2 Sirens, a big increase with 3 Sirens, and another small increase with 4 Sirens. As you can see from the table above this pattern was reversed; I got a big percentage increase going to 2 Sirens, a small increase with 3 Sirens, and another big increase with 4 Sirens. What causes this change? Damned if I know! My best guess is it's random, but it might not be. I'd have to do a lot more runs to be sure, and I'm not going to - I am so sick of killing Craw!
I'll add the table and graphs of Legendary weapons found tomorrow - there are no earth-shattering changes from the results from my first experiment; lots of Equalizers, Defilers, Volcanoes, and Firehawks; not one Reaper, Redemption or Rhino. The order and numbers in between move around a little, but not enough to make me think it's anything other than random fluctuations. All in all it's been a lot of work for no clear results (damn, I wish I'd payed attention to maths in school - without some vague grasp of statistical analysis this has all been a waste of time LOL). Outbackyak 13:40, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
Interestingly enough, the Rhino seems to be sort of up there in rarity but I found one in a dumpster a couple days ago, just hours since I had found a defiler(albeit a horrible one with a two-shot clip) in a dumpster. laserrobotics 00:51, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Actually i did an expirement to find exactly this. Zon PT2's crawmerax i found an approximatly 10% chance for any weapon he dropped to be an orange (any orange) and a .4% chance for a peralescant weapon (any peral WEAPON) i do not have such data with anything else. Darth Lime 02:18, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
Hello, can somebody tell me the drop rates on the Legendaries on Borderlands 2? on Normal mode?, I wish I could 'nab a Bitch off BNK3R, but so far I am getting metric craptons of Sledge's Shotguns from Smash Head, who amusingly drops more quality crap than The Warrior