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Speculation pages do not belong on mainspace. We cannot organize a bunch of speculation. Speculation, at best, is a footnote on a main page. These pages are free space for speculation on a game that is unreleased. If a UC creates a page that we will need, it helps us. To try and clean-up speculation is an editing nightmare. Dr. F clearly has this area "covered" and will have to deal with UC's that will not follow wiki rules and will insert stuff in the middle of paragraphs and such while trying to keep all new content. Speculation is, at heart, just talk. |
Speculation pages do not belong on mainspace. We cannot organize a bunch of speculation. Speculation, at best, is a footnote on a main page. These pages are free space for speculation on a game that is unreleased. If a UC creates a page that we will need, it helps us. To try and clean-up speculation is an editing nightmare. Dr. F clearly has this area "covered" and will have to deal with UC's that will not follow wiki rules and will insert stuff in the middle of paragraphs and such while trying to keep all new content. Speculation is, at heart, just talk. |
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I don't have a problem having to answer to doc. I respect him both as a person and a bureaucrat. The only difference would be that this scenario here would have been avoided if I were a full-on sysop. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 12:06, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
I don't have a problem having to answer to doc. I respect him both as a person and a bureaucrat. The only difference would be that this scenario here would have been avoided if I were a full-on sysop. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 12:06, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| + | There was an argument that followed... It has been moved [[Forum:Removing_the_argument|here]]. -iatbr |
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| − | That is fine Nohara, but what you are saying is that you want to clean up speculation and Dr.F is respecting the wording and meaning of that speculation. Speculation is all we have at this point on some areas. If Dr.F wants to protect the wording of a source, when we dont have anything else, why would you just go ahead and do it? That is not how to become a Sys-Ops. {{User:I am the best robot/sig}} 12:13, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | I don't endorse speculation pages in article mainspace at all. Having a disagreement with someone is not something that should affect user privileges. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 12:18, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | OK OK This has to go to a forum right away but, if you dont endorse them, why do you care, and even after that, why would you push it? Why do you want to go around it? Why not just leave it for him to deal with? It is his tag. I am just failing to see why its a issue at all, whether or not you were a full-on sysop or not. Do you need that title to start editing the speculation pages? or what? {{User:I am the best robot/sig}} 12:24, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | I care because I don't like the idea of circulating rumors. The idea that any editor can just roll up to article mainspace, post whatever drivel he or she wishes and have it stay there as if it were fact. It's article mainspace. Everything posted in article mainspace should be held to the same standard, universally. No second person pronouns, grammatical errors, and all sentences should be well-constructed and easy to read. The notice above the speculation pages undermines that. Even you said that speculation is at best should be nothing more than a footnote on a page. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 12:32, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | The tag says it will be a talk page and that Dr.F has it "covered". If you have a dispute on how he is handleing that... Why not just make a forum? Would you want a Sys-Ops who tried to circumvent something you are trying to do? {{User:I am the best robot/sig}} 12:58, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | Because it's still in article mainspace where it doesn't belong. And the notice doesn't say it will be a talk page. It says that it will be moved to a forum page. All the while, people are going to the pages, noting that they're in article mainspace, and taking them seriously. Speculation pages do not belong in article mainspace, period. I thought I could have a chat with the good doctor about this and save time vs. creating a forum. Regardless, a disagreement does not warrant changing user rights. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 13:07, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | Sorry forum page... The other page where you do not edit others words. You cannot edit speculation or rewrite the article with any different information than the original author. The article itself is speculation... You would be replacing an authors speculation with your own. He has chosen to handle it himself. If a spell check is in order I would tell him to do it, not start rewording stuff.{{User:I am the best robot/sig}} 13:29, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | It's not a forum page in it's current state. All of the speculation pages are in article mainspace, and need to read like it. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 13:32, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | So your requiring editors to freely speculate as long as it reads the way you want it? How about my speculation... do you have a problem with that or are you going to change it? {{User:I am the best robot/sig}} 13:38, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | I'm not requiring anyone to do anything. It's in article mainspace. That means wikia policy is in full effect. An emphasis on spelling, grammar, good sentence structure and lack of second person pronouns is how things are written in article mainspace, that's not my ruling. That's how wikia works. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 13:49, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | Ok I will let others talk. My point is Dr.F wanted it, you should have made him do it. Take it to a forum if you had to. Why do an edit war when he is looking for a permanent Sys-ops who wont circumvent him? {{User:I am the best robot/sig}} 13:58, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | Two undos total and then a talk page discussion is hardly an edit war. [[File:Nohai.png|111px|link=User_talk:NOhara24]] 14:10, February 10, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | I saw fair warnings everywhere. Doh... kk I will shut up :D {{User:I am the best robot/sig}} 14:28, February 10, 2012 (UTC)}} |
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I'm in much the same camp as happypal. My position is this: Main namespace articles exist to provide an ''authoritive'' information source. We should not be endorsing a "speculation is allowed" stance for a particular set of pages, we should be publishing current and accurate release data, as we can reference it. All speculative content is perfectly welcome in the associated talk pages. |
I'm in much the same camp as happypal. My position is this: Main namespace articles exist to provide an ''authoritive'' information source. We should not be endorsing a "speculation is allowed" stance for a particular set of pages, we should be publishing current and accurate release data, as we can reference it. All speculative content is perfectly welcome in the associated talk pages. |
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Revision as of 09:15, 23 February 2012
{{Delete|RfA has been derailed by recent events. No longer applicable.}}
Hello all,
Due to a minor spat, I've lost my temp-op privileges under Dr.F. Now, let me be clear. I was not fired because of anything explicitly bad or otherwise un-admin-ish behavior. I was fired because I was no longer serving the purpose that I was hired for, making Dr.F's job easier. Minions don't think freely, and I had begun to proceed down that road. I'd think Dr. F would agree.
That being said, I would like to apply for a legitimate sysop position. Gaining these privileges would still very much bound me to wikia policy, but I simply wouldn't have to answer directly to Dr.F. Of course, it is the community's decision as to whether I attain this position or not.
If the community should grant me this request, I would be eternally grateful and would do my best to serve the wiki as I always have for a bit over a year now.
Thank you all for your time,
02:55, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Yay
Nay
Discussion
Support
Dispute
You were clearly editing a talk page entry protected by Dr.F. I would have to answer to that. Why wouldn't you? 
05:33, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
I did answer for it. Hence why I am but a lowly rollbacker now. 11:54, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Neutral
I don't believe in become admin over an argument. happypal (talk • contribs)
I have mixed feeling about this. On one hand, I believe You (NOhara) could make a good Admin provided you stayed impartial. You are dedicted the the Wiki and its integrity. For these reasons, i respect you as an editor and wiki community member. On the Other hand You have, on occasion, done things that i would consider quite un- Admin like. I have brought these things to your attention in the past when i felt the need and will not harp on them here. I will support you should you get the position, but would hope you contemplate your decisions more in that capacity. 
19:04, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
Free Discussion
Both (slightly) in the wrong, move along
- I think NOhara24 was in the wrong to pursue editing the page after Dr.F made his stance explicit.
- I think Dr.F has made abusive use of his Bureaucrat powers. One does not un-sysop on a whim, or on a spat (even if temp). And most of all, one does not un-sysop just because of a disagreement.
- Overal, I think both parties were in the wrong in edit waring and having a pissing contest, instead of having a constructive discussion. I saw good points from both parties:
- I understand why Dr.F is against the editing of the pages.
- Mainspace is mainspace, and NOHara is correct to wish to maintain a level of standard.
Now, can we just please move on. borderlands wiki does not need a feud like this. Dr.F is by far the best bureaucrat I have ever seen on wikia. NOhara24 is a great (temp) sysop who has done great work for the wiki. I want to see NOhara24 have his temp-sysop status back (Not against full sysop, but that is another discussion, IMO). Seriously, it is just a single disagreement on a single page...
From there, can we have a constructive discussion about what we should do about these pages, and discuss what the policy is (I don't remember seeing one, apart from Dr.F's tags), and move away from these "he said, he did" crap. happypal (talk • contribs) 08:36, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed. Atleast give his temp-op status back. It has been what.. almost a year now? There's only been a few spats over stupid little things. We all make mistakes, but other than this hitting the fan, it has been quite nice around here. ♥ ☮✰Razldazlchick ♥ ☮✰ 14:39, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
"(as a sysop)...I simply wouldn't have to answer directly to Dr.F." Staff and Janitors > Bureaucrat > Administrator > minions. there remains a flaw in the equation that i would like to see resolved. historically an rfa contains a list of accomplishments and goals to the furtherance of the wikia for vetting by the community vice a desire to countermand established hierarchy. also i tend to agree with douglas adams in that those who desire power the most are the ones that deserve it the least. i remain in favor of being "shanghaied" in lieu of submitting my own RFA.
22:11, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
Blank Pages
Speculation pages do not belong on mainspace. We cannot organize a bunch of speculation. Speculation, at best, is a footnote on a main page. These pages are free space for speculation on a game that is unreleased. If a UC creates a page that we will need, it helps us. To try and clean-up speculation is an editing nightmare. Dr. F clearly has this area "covered" and will have to deal with UC's that will not follow wiki rules and will insert stuff in the middle of paragraphs and such while trying to keep all new content. Speculation is, at heart, just talk.
I have no problem if Dr.F wants to reinstate a Temp-Op status, but I do have a problem with granting full Sys-ops in order to "not answer" to Dr.F 09:36, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
I don't have a problem having to answer to doc. I respect him both as a person and a bureaucrat. The only difference would be that this scenario here would have been avoided if I were a full-on sysop. 12:06, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
There was an argument that followed... It has been moved here. -iatbr
I'm in much the same camp as happypal. My position is this: Main namespace articles exist to provide an authoritive information source. We should not be endorsing a "speculation is allowed" stance for a particular set of pages, we should be publishing current and accurate release data, as we can reference it. All speculative content is perfectly welcome in the associated talk pages.
As for the dispute, the extra reverts were a bad idea. Arguing over it didn't help, so a bit of chill-out time is probably justified. The flip-side of that coin is the demotion is an over-the-top reaction as well. I think the better solution at this point would be to publicise a time limit on the poll and make the result binding.
WarBlade 09:50, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
- just to be clear: this will not be decided by a radio button poll. as with every administrator on this (and other) wiki, endorsements must be stated and signed by editors. and yes, UCs count unless proven to be falsified. the strength of these testimonials will be weighed against each other after two weeks (this being a standard set by LobStoR and i see no reason to break from it. the poll(s) on previous RfAs were poking fun @ the anonymity and valuelessness of such a mechanism. Dr. F
09:59, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Button-poll removed. 11:59, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
- wait, what's going on here (i don't know because i've had a 4 day weekend :). so... what happened to get this all started. F ₳ ┬ M @ И 2539 ► talk◄ 22:41, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
Too Much Bad Blood in This Post, Needs Another Poll
--Talk to prinny! 
Riceygringo 18:20, February 11, 2012 (UTC)