Forums: Index > Watercooler > Ineffective Ranger fifth line

I've been running some experiments, and am observing absolutely no effect from the +% Team Critical Hit Damage fifth line on a Ranger classmod.


PC, all DLC, most recent patch through Steam, no 3PDLC. Single-player, no multiplayer difficulty enhancement.


Take this build (a Sniper specialized for Craw farming, hence no Trespass or Ransack) and give him one of each of the following four classmods:

  • 650 Ranger with +84% Team Critical Hit Damage
  • 650 Survivor with +33% Team Damage
  • 650 Hunter with +2 Scavenge Extra Items (control #1)
  • no classmod equipped (control #2)

In each test run, the character equips the classmod in the previous game, so that the character would start the game with the selected classmod. (In case there was a Vengeance type bug taking place.)

Character wields a non-elemental repeater. Damage card rating of the weapon I used 333; debug console revealed this actually to be 332.2015. Character has 50 pistol proficiency, giving a +48% damage bonus (from testing, that's actually 47.5%, rounded).

After any kill, character lets all on-kill buffs subside, preventing interference from Relentless or Killer.

Starting each test pass (new game) in the Underdome, send the character to Fyrestone. Go to the gate and clear out the skags with bird and bullet, then let the on-kill buffs subside. Let a L69 bandit (ie same level), ideally shielded for longer life, approach. Shoot the bandit once in the body and once in the head, recording the resulting damage numbers. Return to the Underdome, change classmods, save the game, and restart for the next text pass.


Body shotHead shot
Survivor 600 1949
Ranger 492 1598
Hunter 492 1598
none 492 1598


The Survivor numbers are huge, which is to be expected-- that classmod does not get enough respect. But what's going on with the Ranger critical hit number? Why does that have the same value as my controls?

Test run twice with consistent results. So it wasn't just me being sleepy last night. Dämmerung 20:21, June 27, 2012 (UTC)


Interesting, though i never use the Ranger com. Agreed that the Survivor com with team damage is awesome. Perhaps try to splitscreen or co-op to see if maybe it only works for team mates? Also would it not be easier to buy the reset for your skills and just not put points into skills you do not want to use? Veggienatersml 20:31, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

For this test's purposes, you could buy the reset and then buy no skills at all, though cleaning out the skag trash would be a little more inconvenient. I just happened to have this character at hand, since he's the only one with that particular Survivor. Fyrestone gate never gets so busy that you can't let the on-kill buffs subside.

I'm just kind of stunned (horrified) (appalled) (whatever) that I've been a Ranger for so long without noticing its actual lack of effect. I would swear on a stack of Necronomica that I've seen the crit fifth line work in the past. Dämmerung 20:42, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

In reguards to the skill reset, i see your point, i was over thinking it i guess. Maybe thats why i never really used that com, because it didnt seem to be working as well as others i was using. Though i know just a casual noticing is not very scientific. Dont know what to think of this little conundrum. Veggienatersml 20:56, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Also, have you tried a Ranger Com that has the bonus but not on the fifth line, or is that what this exercise was only about? Veggienatersml 21:13, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Ranger only offers critical hit bonuses in its mat2 variation, which is what I meant by fifth line. mat3's fifth line is a team accuracy recovery buff, a pretty damned subtle effect-- kind of a dilute version of the Glorious prefix for MGs-- and I mean a pretty damned subtle effect assuming that it does anything at all, grrrr. Still, for bird lovers or players with non-stereotypical weapons, Ranger is an excellent classmod even without a fifth line at all. You do need to be really into throwing the bird. Dämmerung 21:24, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well, there i go missunderstanding again. I always liked the Hunter Com with cooldown bonus for "throwing" the Bird, myself. But yeah, i see your point again about the unconvetional weapons. Im sure there is a " middle finger joke " that could be said here but i am going to refrain from that at this time. Emoticon_silly.png --Veggienatersml 21:37, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, man. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the Hunter cooldown bonus is completely broken. Seriously. It lengthens your cooldown instead of shortening it. Try it and see-- it's easy to test. Dämmerung 21:38, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

pardon my not knowing how to post stuff here being new and all, but this is tom12121112 from GBX, and i just ran a similar test on consoles(360). i specced out of literally all my skills, and ran a 660 ranger w/ crit boost 5th line on my hunter with full proficiency, and dealt 583 dmg to a bruiser. i removed the com and ran comless and dealt another 583 on a crit. then i specced into 5/5 deadly, and ran a 660 gunslinger for 8/5 deadly. i dont remember the damage from that crit, but it was 600-800, more than either previous run.

how do i sign these bad boys, with a bunch of squigleys, right?

Tom12121112 21:49, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Ugh, so it's a cross platform glitch. Thanks for reproducing my results. And welcome, too. Dämmerung 21:58, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
Really? I have not used a Hunter com in quite a while either. Its seemed to work properly for the 360, but again casual observance and a long time ago. I generally run a Gunslinger build( shocking, i know :P). Confirmation from elsewhere would suggest the Ranger is broken as well. Thank you TOM . --Veggienatersml 23:14, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Further Research

After further research, a team at Gbx forums (including Tom12121112 above) has determined that the Ranger mat2 bonus works only with weapons that have a published Critical Hit Damage stat on their item card, plus Revolvers. (Mechanically, the weapon must have a Critical Hit Damage bonus attribute, and that bonus must be Pre-Add.) So the classmod bonus works with all sniper rifles, all revolvers, Intense-accessory CRs, Avengers, Strikers, Lady Finger, Athena's Wisdom, T.K's Wave; but it does not work with non-intense CRs (including all MGs), SMGs (as tested so far-- but see below), most repeaters, most shotguns. Nobody has tested the Bitch yet, but I would expect it not to work because Bitch's broken bonus is not Pre Add. In theory, The Spy should work. Death-titled assault shotguns do not work: their bonus is not Pre Add, and it does not appear on the weapon's card.

So all of us who ran mat2 Ranger on traditional revolver/sniper Mordy and thought it worked? We were right. All of us who ran mat2 Ranger as an alternative for shotgun/smg/MG Mordy? Wasted fifth line. Dämmerung 15:00, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Just a thought, does the "+X% critical damage" give a straight up critical damage boost, or rather, increase the existing critical? Maybe that's the explanation...? happypal (talk • contribs) 17:20, July 18, 2012 (UTC)