User talk:MadCrayolaz

Welcome
Welcome to Borderlands Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Zer0 page. We hope you will continue to be a regular contributor, and will help us improve the wiki!

Please leave a message on my talk page if you need help with anything! I'll be happy to help. -- Happypal (Talk) 19:21, September 12, 2012
 * For a detailed list of all our available admins, check out Borderlands Wiki:Active Mods

sig
= . add to signature preferences. redesign as needed. 00:55, October 14, 2012 (UTC) Can you explain what you mean? I did so, but it doesn't seem to want to work...
 * there is a small depiction of your avatar in the orange wikia bar atop page. mouseover to get a link to preferences. add that exact bit between the nowikis to the entry box. 08:10, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Still having issues. Not since the dawn of man has something like this confounded me so.

This is what I put into the sig:

This is what it gave me after I hit save:

Any ideas? DynastyW (talk) 18:03, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Test
18:15, October 14, 2012 (UTC) 18:17, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

SSCC
Someone mentioned to me that you might be interested in some wiki cleanup work, would you kindly skim and correct pages marked with the tag?-- 02:24, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yup yup 02:58, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Anything else I should know about doing? Also, what do I do to be added to the list? 21:29, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Think of yourself as a new player of BL2, what kind of information would you be willing to read. If it takes longer than 3 minutes to read through a page, it's probably too long.


 * Also:
 * 1. Avoid writing strategies except for very specialized circumstances, such as a very difficult boss (e.g. Terramorphous), :let players decide how to play the game.


 * strategies for individual enemies (if necessary) may go on that enemies' mainspace page - but- if there exists a mission to defeat that enemy then the strat goes on the mission page.


 * 2. Keep information mostly in point form and avoid pronouns.


 * 3. Remove youtube vids from boss pages, throw them in strategy page/talk pages.
 * -- 23:39, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Lol frynote. So basically what I have been doing. Removing things based on opinion, straightening up the formatting, move junk around, and if possible, un-stubbing the page. Easy enough, tends to be what I like to do most anyway. 23:57, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Weapon pages
I'm not sure about just using the element colours for weapon tables, it means Slag looks odd on its own with no damage number. Evil Tim (talk) 15:47, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

As does Explosive, but I am not in charge of changing said practice. If you really want to see about changing it, either contact an admin, or propose a change through a blog post. I doubt it would change however, due to the fact that the color is indicative of the element the weapon has, so, adding the element name is redundant. 15:52, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well sure, but it says "element / chance" above the column, so it's kind of weird to not have the actual name of the element in the column, especially with no key to the colours. I mean, I know what they mean (at level 50 I bloody well should, after all) but it seems a little unintuitive for new readers. Evil Tim (talk) 15:57, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm imagining that most people who are looking at the variants are well versed with the game, and even if they are not, it's not that discreet in what it means. I assume a minimum amount of thought from people, and I won't cater to those who don't use any thought when editing. 16:35, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

I assume that comment was directed at me
While I am guilty of not bothering to change it, when I made that page back on the second there were no BL2 weapon articles for anything but Legendaries and no standards for "how the wiki works." The table format I used was copied from Bad Touch's variant chart, which appears to have been the standard at the time.

So please avoid making assumptions about what I am or am not changing. Evil Tim (talk) 12:56, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yet you chose not to change it to what we accept as the norm when you decided to edit it. So I am back to assuming you had no intention on ever changing it.

13:00, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Which is a nice violation of that old "assume good faith" mantra that wikis tend to have. Maybe I was just fixing the most clearly broken aspect of it for now, did you think of that at all? Evil Tim (talk) 13:03, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * And yet, it remained unchanged, you just ADDED to the problem by adding info in the incorrect way. I'm not saying you were doing anything intentionally, but I do not believe that you ever intended to change it. 15:25, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Nasty
Your maturity level is that of a five year old. I guess that why you can't take contsructive criticism. Asshat!


 * If your constructive criticism is entirely you calling me an asshat, I see no reason why you need to stay in chat. 20:38, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

I have also informed the powers that be at wiki of you actions. Good day.

Britva
Why the hell did you just copy my Britva Moloko image and renamed it to britva Molo?Flamehazard (talk) 21:39, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * #1 . Yours? It's on the wiki, who cares. As well, what in gods name are you talking about?

Formatting
Just wondering, is there any specific reason why a second space was needed between the favor text and the dash on the weapon effectspage? I do see that it makes the actual page source slightly easier to differentiate but IMO with the second space added it looks atrocious on the part of the page that will actually be most likely to be seen by the general public. I'm not doggin, I just wanted to know if there was any specific reason for it. Cscribble (talk) 21:46, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just my general style. That is up to the editor, I do it for the editor as well, as it makes differentiating between things easier. Not only does it not affect the wikia, but it lets the whitespace removal processes work more efficiently, so yeah. There is no affect on the page by adding the second space, so don't worry, it doesn't appear. To summarize, it's just my preference as an editor to make it easier first for the editor. I've gone to pages where it's so horribly formatted I wanted to shoot myself. That is why I do it. As to it's effects: There are none.
 * I was wondering if someone would ask about this, so it's funny you did :P
 * 03:35, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I checked and double checked to see if it did make a difference (and to make sure I wasn't just seeing things lol) on the public view of the page and having that space between the two in the source somehow does add a second space. If I wasn't as OCD about things I probably wouldn't have noticed lol. Figured i'd ask since I'm a noob to wiki editing and want to stick to guidelines and whatnot. Sidenote: I have no idea what whitespace removal is... like I said I'm a noob :-) Cscribble (talk) 22:56, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Hello
Hi there! I have a message on my talk page from someone asking me to lift the ban you put on them. Apparently they called you an "a**hat". Im sure you have your reasons for banning them and i just wanted to say i have no intention on lifting said ban. Not even sure being just "chatmods" we can lift the bans? Besides they didnt sign the post on my talk page at all so i have no idea who this person is. Maybe they will think twice and act appropriately. 14:21, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry for this guy bothering you about this. As chat-mods, we have the ability to kick and ban people from chat. He was harassing me, and was breaking the rules (found here) I instated in chat. I banned him for 2 hours from chat, and he goes on to ask multiple people to unban him from chat. Not only did he continue to be a nuisance, he then thinks it's alright to badger other people to do this. What is ironic is that in said rules, which he was criticizing me as well about the fact that I am asking everyone to read them, is that he didn't even follow the appeal process. That aside, if you do have questions on how to do things as a chat mod, feel free to ask me any time. I'm going to be updating the rules with how to actually ban someone from chat for a set time period. Once more, I apologize for his actions.
 * 16:59, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

It ok no biggie. They didnt get anywhere with me anyway. Lol I know we can ban people but what i was unsure about is "unbanning" them. But in the future if and when i have any questions i will keep you in mind!! 01:05, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

calling all code monkeys
the weighted loot pools in BL2 have provided us with yet another troll cave, the Drop Guide. in the interest of avoiding further edits like "also drops from the Warrior" and "found in a chest in Butt F*ck Caverns" i started work on Template:Random. unfortunately, i found the necessary code well above my paygrade.

ideally, the template would work similar to Template:This. adding to the Conference Call page would generate "The Conference Call is obtained randomly from any loot source but has a slightly increased chance to drop from the Warrior."

at your leisure would you kindly take a look at the code and see if this can be achieved? much appreciated.

21:58, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

To Tim
I'm too lazy to go to your talk wall. I have PERSONALLY used my program and have found proof(not undeniable, as I don't fully trust my program to work 100%) that there is a pepperbox prefix. Drag this out further, be my guest. You are only hurting yourself as looking like an immature half-wit. 22:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean the Title ever actually results in a weapon being generated in the game itself. Until someone actually has one in hand and a shot to prove it, I'm going to take logging 151 hours and never seeing that combination as reason to be skeptical. There's the small issue of what the hell it would be supposed to do since Jakobs pistols are semi-auto so you can't make them fire faster. Evil Tim (talk) 22:23, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * We aren't talking about being dropped. We are talking about it's existance.  It MAY not drop, but that is info pertinent to the page.  22:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would still have reservations about dedicating a page to a piece of leftover code, especially when people put it in categories and listings with no qualifications regarding the fact that it might not exist in the game proper at all. Also, you're supposed to follow procedure and add a note to Category_talk:Candidates_for_deletion, not just remove the deletion notice and question the motives of the person who put it there. Evil Tim (talk) 22:35, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

tarantella
no one said it was incorrect. i said there is no link in the trivia note. 06:11, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

ban
I am sorry for any offensive comments that were made to you Dynasty. I regret the use of my word martyr as it may be offensive. How long am i banned from chat? please don't get petty over this and abuse your rights as chatmod. CollosoNeil (talk) 05:06, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

1 month. Threats will not be acceptable. This wasn't some petty ban over the argument. I could care less if someone from the INTERNET doesn't get something. You mean nothing to me. However, the fact you threatened to disturb the Wiki's harmony is distressing, so I took matters into my own hands, with correct course of action. 05:17, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for acting civil. Dynasty. I am sorry and i would ask for you to revoke the ban, but don't know if there is anything i can do to make it up to you. So sorry for making 'threat' i did not see it that way and didn't intend for it to be taken that way. I would kindly ask for you to take this as a momentary lapse in my judgement and i promise not to make the mistake again. Sorry.CollosoNeil (talk) 05:20, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

I have been stressed with my yearly exams coming up and think of that conversation we had as a way to let stress out. Not my usual behaviour CollosoNeil (talk) 05:22, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Could you please at least respond? I would like to know if you are at least considering repealing the ban or will continue to be stern in your decision.CollosoNeil (talk) 05:40, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I did skip over the warning I usually impose. I felt this situation was escalating far beyond acceptable. I'll shorten the ban to 3 days. Side note to midnight: You really have no basis to judge me on, as you continually made a fool of yourself. I take no responsibility for you continuing on after I warned you not to. If you want to appeal or something, go look at the Live Chat! Policy page. There is an appeal process there. Else, please don't harass other Chat Mods over this, it just makes your case that much worse. 05:46, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for being kind. I will remember you advice and FYI i didn't harass any other ChatMods, i just asked someone how long the ban is normally for. All good though, i have hopefully learned my lesson. CollosoNeil (talk) 05:48, November 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Not you, That was mostly aimed at Midnight. 06:00, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Dynasty. Just wondering when that ben expires, it has been about 3 days now and still ban is there. Sorry, i don't want to sound pushy. 06:45, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Quik Drawler
What was wrong with noting that the Quik Drawler variant on the Badaboom swaps/deploys/is_ready_to_fire very quickly? I'm not arguing against removing the note, I'd just like to know what separates this from the bonus melee damage notes so there's less cleanup to do whenever I add something. Tieren (talk) 06:20, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

I removed since taht is a secondary effect that the prefix provides. It's not of utmost import. Sadly, we do consider melee damage of import, yet I believe it is also decided upon by the prefix. Sorry, just following standards. 06:35, November 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. Keep prefix data on some prefix page, note things that would otherwise be completely unlisted. Thank you for the explanation, I should probably go dig into the style guide. >_> Tieren (talk) 06:54, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ban2
u did not un bann me Notfunnyguy1 (talk) 03:15, November 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes. I said I was giving you a week long ban for breaking both the rule regarding bigotry and the rule about ban avoidance. I'm being nice, instead of requesting you be permabanned from ALL Wikias.   03:18, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Your sig
I hope you don't mind, I did a bit of upkeep on it: Yeah, so just keep it, or revert it, or whatever, I wouldn't mind if you don't like it. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 14:33, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Link is underlined same color as text.
 * Your sig will not break on line end anymore (leaving a horizontal | ).
 * I added an "ivory" (white) ® symbol to link to your talk.
 * Removed some redundant span blocks, simplifying the sig overall.
 * Begins and ends with a single em-space (as opposed to triple nbsp).


 * No I totally appreciate it. It was annoying getting that | to happen.  I just copied someone elses to begin with, as I have no creativity.  Only thing I have to ask, what's up with the ® symbol?  was it supposed to be a link?  If it was, the link isn't working, as it's just appearing as copyable text.  20:13, November 14, 2012 (UTC) <---Testing out sweet new sig just to make sure it wasn't caused by being an old one.
 * It's a link to "User talk:DynastyW" ( User talk:DynastyW ), so it will not work on this page (self link), however, in the forums, or other people's talk, it works. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 20:36, November 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Silly me <_< 20:37, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

New heads seem to have appeared
Looks like some new heads have surfaced. http://imgur.com/a/1MmlU#0

Dividedbyn1ght (talk) 17:24, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

I already posted them to the respective character galleries. They're due in DLC2, whenever it's released. 18:14, November 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * And? I just left a note saying we need those pictures when they are able to be gotten in the right way.  That's all.  18:21, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Rifle
Rifle/Variant Chart

lol dis-ambiguous page has a variant chart

page you are looking for?

Rifle (Borderlands 2)/Variant Chart

Beesafree (talk) 17:49, November 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well then it looks like we have a need to merge the pages. PS: THis is Dynasty from my phone.

Grammar
Grammar overcorrection is a pet peeve of mine, and if you nitpick you yourself must be fair game :D. So, on with it: because is a subordinating conjunction. There is absolutely no problem with starting sentences with it in even the most formal academic or professional grammar. If you have a naked because clause then it's a sentence fragment such as "Because of ninjas.", but that's a separate issue. "Because of ninjas, I am afraid of the dark." is fine.

The '"rule" you are thinking of applies to coordinating conjunctions such as and or but, and even then customarily only in extremely stuffy technical writing. -Raisins (talk) 22:50, November 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * That is incorrect. At least in America.  Not sure where you are from.  The proper way to start a sentence with the same effect is "Due to", not "because".  Unless you want to go and tell my colleague, an English professor, he is wrong.  23:02, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you misheard him? The classical grammar rule is definitely only for coordinating and not subordinating conjunctions. Can you find a reference that says otherwise? -Raisins (talk) 23:21, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * PS I just noticed that unless is a subordinating conjunction and you started a sentence with it, making a dependent clause with no main clause. This sentence fragment error is the exact mistake your professor friend is probably trying to help you avoid. I am aware this is just conversation and not formal writing, but I was still amused. -Raisins (talk) 00:42, November 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Bah, I'm just a damn history professor. I am not a certified English professor by any means.  Take it up with him, not me.  02:14, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Trolling
Irrespective of anyone's personal take in the debate, NOBODY is welcome to clutter the discussion with antagonistic additions. You can leave the "protip" and "*GASP*" commentary out of the discussion completely -- WarBlade (talk) 04:29, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's relevant info. Regardless of how it's phrased.  There is no policy against it, and it was an abusive block on your part.  I'm not going to push the point that I see your actions as incorrect, and unbefitting of an admin.  It wont do any good.  However, you were baseless in your blocking, and it was just sad that you did.  A mature conversation doesn't mean 3 people trying to point out each others problems, it's being mature and trading ideas and critique.  It was the former that the thread descended into, and sad that you carried on with it.   23:25, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

for your review
Forum:Request_For_Adminship:Fryguy

cheers,

00:51, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

thank you
...for your support in my recent (successful) RfA. your support will not be forgotten in the coming days of the revolution.

your newest benevolent dictator,

20:18, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

Gub trivia
Before we start an edit war about the Gub read the link provided in the other trivia. Take the Money and Run also here is a transcript of the exact scene in question:
 * Bank Teller #1: "Does this look like 'gub' or 'gun'?"
 * Bank Teller #2: "Gun. See? But what's 'abt' mean?"
 * Virgil Starkwell: "It's 'act'. A-C-T. Act natural. Please put fifty thousand dollars into this bag and act natural."
 * Bank Teller #1: "Oh, I see. This is a holdup?"


 * and here is a link to theentire film if you'd like to read it over ^.^


 * Sounds fine. Just make sure you cite the source correctly.  You can't remove something that is considered true without first citing where the actual truth is, and replacing it, not just plain removing it.  I wouldn't start a war, that's a bit childish isn't it?  18:50, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Images policy
Hi, I wanted to upload level 50 weapon card pictures to weapon main pages, instead of to variants page, because I think that readers would find of more use maxed weapons than low level ones.

I've seen you have just edited Commerce to remove my picture (I just noticed that mine was of very low resolution). Could I upload it again to main page if I take High-Res screenshots or there is any policy to do not edit main page weapon pictures?

Also, I see you removed "summary" on the picture page where I stated which parts that weapon had, to provide more information. Should I leave that box blank when uploading more pictures?

Thanks.


 * Well, to be honest, I added it so as to make sure it was not an orphaned image. It's beneficial to have ANY weapon cards+weapon entries on Variants pages, as it shows the wide spectrum of possibilities.


 * As for the image itself, the original image had been of a much higher quality. The policy with main page image switching is that it needs to be of BETTER quality, not equal or lower, so if you can get a higher res photo of the entire thing, go for it.


 * As to the image info box, I removed it as the info there was not supposed to go there (don't quote me, I'll verify this later, am not totally sure), but instead, info regarding the actual picture does.


 * Props for remembering to add the correct categories, keep up the good work, and remember, if you have a gun and gun card pic, add it to the variant chart.


 * 18:09, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the quick reply.
 * Ok, I'll take higher quality pictures. By the way, I've uploaded Sloth page and updated the picture. This one is still low-res, but better than the older anyway. ::I'll replace it by a high res picture of the same weapon asap.
 * This time, I've put older (and new) picture on the variants chart and added the categories just after uploading the picture.


 * GryphusR (talk) 18:15, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * PD: There is again a "summary" on the "Night Sloth.jpg" as I wrote it that prior reading your answer GryphusR (talk) 18:18, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * I removed the summary, but it can easily be undone on both. If it is confirmed you can have that there, feel free to undo it. As for the sloth, no, I the other pic was higher quality.
 * 18:21, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi again. I've replaced both files, please take a look at this pages for Sloth and Commerce to check if the new images meet the quality you need. Let me know if there is something wrong. If I get a positive answer I'll take pictures of the rest of my weapons which don't have a lvl 50 weapon cards on the wiki.
 * GryphusR (talk) 18:44, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Much better. JUst make sure you are taking a picture of the WHOLE screen. Not just a zoom in. 19:41, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you refer to the cropped side of the card, I'm taking whole screen captures with the steam option to do it, but as my resolution is 16:10 instead 16:9 at 1920x1200 px the left side of the weapon card is mildly cropped (nothing important imho, as it only affects the frame). The graphic options of borderlands don't let me set up an aspect ratio of 1920x1080 but if I find a workarround (already googling for it) I'll replace the images with a newer version without cropped frame.


 * In the case you're talking about the perspective from which the items are being screenshoted, I'm trying to replicate the perspective of previous images or trying to find a good one that shows good detail or unique properties of the item for easier recognition. If you need just a standard side-view of the guns, let me know and I'll replace that pictures too.
 * GryphusR (talk) 19:51, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hi again, about your last undo on Pimpernel I think that new image is obviously better than the older in terms of resolution, size, etc. The older is blurry, dark, and the logo of the flower crossed by 2 swords is not clear. The older image is also a photo (rotate, screenshot, close...) instead of a clean screenshot. Please, check full-size images prior undos. GryphusR (talk) 17:38, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * How else would I be able to say it was better if I didn't see? You are wrong, the old one is significantly better than yours. 17:41, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * May I ask why older is significantly better than mine? I've given some arguments about why I think that new picture is of higher quality, I would like some kind of reason because you think the older is better, because I sincerely cannot appreciate how that picture is of higher quality. That way I would be able to take better screenshots from now on.
 * Or are you just taking reserve against me uploading so many pictures to front pages? No offense intended, I understand that thing could be a cause, as [Fryguy42 | http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Fryguy42#About_pic_quality.] told that to me. (although he later reverted the undos)
 * The better you explain me why older picture is of higher quality, the better I could contribute this wiki. Thanks for your time GryphusR (talk) 17:50, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * If you understand how pictures are created, it may help. The resolution of which you are taking it of is irrelevant. However, what IS relevant is pixel clarity/depth. This is easily recognizable when looking at a picture. If you look at a straight line, and the line is solid all through, no fuzzyness, it is of higher quality. Yours exhibited more fuzzyness overall. You may want to try using the built in screenshot command that you can use from the console. I've found it to be significantly higher quality than the one Steam has. As well, you may want to lay off replacing every image. You're getting to the point on most where your picture isn't any better, or worse, and this has no reason to replace the current one. Keep in mind, if there is a stark difference between yours and the current one, do it. Else, leave it alone. PS: The damage, accuracy, etc fields on the weapon template on the main page don't work anymore. Remove it instead of modifying it. 19:56, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, understood :) GryphusR (talk) 20:09, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just strolling along here.
 * Personally, I found the new image better.
 * "The damage, accuracy, etc fields on the weapon template on the main page don't work anymore": Technically, it's not that they don't work, it's just they were judged irrelevant and removed.
 * The basic rule for mainspace image box images is:
 * Absolutly no warring or the Evil Doctor will bring a swift end to the fun (and nobody wants that).
 * Only change the image if it warrants a change (don't do it just to have your image).
 * DO NOT change the image because "the new weapon is better". Diversity is fun. Having all pages with purple level 50 is boring.
 * That's all I have to say. Walking along now. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 20:50, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * And a further note. A full spectrum from low level to high level is okay. Multitudes of level 50's is largely worthless though. If you have a level 50 to add, please check that it pushes the boundaries in at least one direction of anything else already on the page, ie. if all of its stats fall inside established limits of those already documented, there's no most likely no point in adding a new variant. -- WarBlade (talk) 21:28, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * SO MANY :'s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On a side note, I'm not warring. I changed only like, 3 back.  The rest have been better quality IMHO.  However, the ones I cahnged I felt were not.  22:31, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Oops!
Oops! Thanks for your fix-up on my Slagga edit. Lordberticus (talk) 06:23, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Hi,

May I ask You why you removed my contribution on Iron and Plasma caster Variant Charts ?

Because the Snapshots were in French ?

whatever i Made the necessary in the tables ?

So where was I making an Ofense with these contributions ?

Thank you for answering.

Fenris51 (talk) 23:27, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

About MIR
sorry, I missed the title last time,

SO what do you call a Red Link to an image, just in order next time, i Don't mess again on my contribution ?

Thank you helping me to add my piece of work to this wiki.

Fenris51 (talk) 00:27, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

P.S : It seems Fryguy42 deleted every screenshots, I'm still curious of the reason Why ?

Fenris51 (talk) 09:44, January 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late reply. The admins on the site go through the images periodically, and will delete all the images that have not been categorized. 14:16, January 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok Thank You, I'll try not to forget this part of the job next time.
 * Fenris51 (talk) 17:23, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Badaboom/Variant Chart
Hi,

I saw you removed my additon to the Badaboom/Variant chart. Could you explain why? I had everything else set up exactly like the current entries as far as I could tell.

Thanks,

AOTA (talk) 17:53, January 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Red Boxed Weapons we don't particularly want as it's not a good way to show the images. If you can get the picture wihtout it being redboxed, feel free to add it.   19:27, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Just checking to save re-work =)
Ahoy hoy,

Just to avoid further need for you or anyone else to run around behind my edits can I ask why my revision to Repeater (Borderlands 2)/Variant Chart was reversed?

Reverse occured at 17:34, January 18, 2013 (for reference to help you know what I'm on about.)

Ta

Strom 316 (talk) 00:00, January 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * You basically removed around 5 entries randomly. Couldn't figure out why. So I undid it, and fixed whatever was wrong with the page. 01:23, January 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * OK I see the mix up, I re-ordered the page into rarity / level order. Problem is code change makes it look like deletes. Some of the pages with large variant lists just seem to be looking cluttered and I was just trying to make it easier to see the variance. I'll try to properly label my edits from now on.
 * Sorry for the confusion
 * Strom 316 (talk) 00:56, January 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * FYI, please don't order the Variants Charts. They are orderable by clicking the arrows at the top of the columns, so therefore, no need to reorder them. 01:10, January 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sweet as and duly noted. Thanks for all your work keeping things clean.
 * Strom 316 (talk) 01:34, January 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * * Tips hat in general direction * 03:40, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Chere-amie variant, etc
was trying to edit the skullsmasher notes but i agree the previous version was redundant and contrary to the initial paragraph.

i dont have an image for my chere-amie yet, be patient with me :)


 * Sorry, but policy is that if you don't have the image, then it doesn't stay. Do it all at once. 19:48, January 25, 2013 (UTC
 * roger that, ill see what i can do to get a decent picture. and suggestions for a clean ps3 image grab, other than just taking a picture of the screen? EDIT === i read some of the above talk topics and gleaned from them.  thankee sai! Xmonkeyfrancoisx (talk) 20:19, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Article Layout
Please leave the start of the article body at the top. It should not be dropped down a line. -- WarBlade (talk) 21:30, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks no different on the page. However, in source mode, it makes looking at the page easier. Having a gap between the template and body text makes it easier to read. 22:21, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * In this particular case, it doesn't. But more often than not, it does. Please be very careful about empty lines, especially in the lead sections. I cannot tell you the amount of pages I've had to correct because they all started with a leading empty line, creating a blank paragraph. All this because "the source looks better".
 * Long story short, you are forcing a style, the advantages of which are subjective (I personally prefer the articles without said empty line). On the other hand, the consequences are potentially very real. Overall: No gains, but risks. Please don't do it.
 * I already had to revert your widespread changes of putting a space before the template. It may have looked like a mere stylistic change to you, but there was a reason for the way it was. There is a reason we don't want empty lines in the lead section. I don't want to wake up one day and realize you've edited all our pages to a new style I'm going to have to revert again. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 22:31, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sigh. Well then. As far as I've seen, adding the space where it does is not harmful at all. I follow basic spacing that Wikipedia articles follow. Templates get a space after and before them unless next to another template, which then has no space between them. It's standard style. Double blank lines cause new paragraphs, not single lines. As for the dash thing, alright, you win. <_< 22:44, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * The text starts at the top left. This is a Borderlands wiki standard. -- WarBlade (talk) 00:05, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Doesn't affect where it starts. You do know that, right? 00:37, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Depends on rendering engine. Regardless of what you see, there's no reason to leave a paragraph start above the opening sentence anyway. As for your block, revert warring is totally unacceptable. If you want to make a change to the way articles on this entire wiki are structured, please discuss the matter first. -- WarBlade (talk) 01:12, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are wrong lol. It's double line break that causes paragraph start. Not 1. 03:38, February 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please excuse me if im oversteping my bounds, but as a "loving husband (i'd imagine you may also have children) and American History Professor (you obviously have students)" as noted in your occupation, I'm sure you are aware of the statment "because i said so". doesnt matter if you disagree with the person in authority, their word is final, and in the end they have our best intrests @ heart. There is no reason to try to get the last word here. and to be blunt, reading some of your comments like this for example, i see you less and less as a respected professor and more like my 8 y/o daughter. Lenorilla (talk) 20:09, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm so sorry that your opinion of me is so low. My honor has been ruined. I shall now commit Seppuku. But before I do so, please, explain why I should care what your opinion of me is? Or why you should care what mine is of you? 20:42, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I dont care what you think of me, i was simply sugarcoating my opinion, and you shouldn't care what i think of you. i was only explaining what your actions make you look like to others. take it how you will. i was just under the impression that a professor would have some tact, and possibly even be respectful. Lenorilla (talk) 21:02, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, did I make a wrong turn into college classroom land? This is the internet. Grow up. 21:09, February 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Your right we should grow up, instead of bickering with you ill direct your attention to the rules set by the Admins, (read artical 1 subset 1, [explains this entire article layout debate] and also articles 2 and 9 [going back to my point in the 1st comment "reading some of your comments like this...]) if I were to act the way you do i'd be banned in a heartbeat. So try and set an example instead of acting like a "Raging Donkey Penis Without Thought Behind Responses Because I Only Know How To Be a Tool" (your words not mine)
 * Simplified ruleset does not apply. It is only used if the Wikia has not set its own set of rules.  You can find these under the policy tab.  As for that response, I regret nothing.  You lash out like some child who doesn't understand the word no.  Not only did you prove you CARED about my opinion, but then you escalated it just so you could have the last word.  21:32, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Request at /u/Zikel
You said that you wanted him to change a couple things on the previous weapon infographics. Sorry for bothering you, but I just want to ask you if he has answered to your request yet. --CharredBrain (talk) 21:14, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nope. Noone has replied to the convo we were having in the comments.  So, I don't think he did.  21:18, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Send him a pm. Tell him what you would like him to change. Maybe he'll answer then? --CharredBrain (talk) 21:26, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright. I'll take a gander at that after I am done with some work.  21:33, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Stop.
Please stop making edits to the source code of pages just because they don't fit your style. It's disruptive and useless, and at best, only un-standardizes things.

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Dog?diff=prev&oldid=303254

WHAT, may I ask, is the point of upper-casing stub and dash? I don't know if you've noticed, but virtually none of our template instances start with an upper case, and this is particularly true for those two templates. Never mind that this was done after I specifically told you about how you had broken the dash template, and had to revert all your edits. I KNOW you saw those reverts, so you really are forcing me to assume you are doing it out spite? If you are going to be making random edits, at least get a feel for what the in-place standard on the rest of the pages is.

Ditto for all of the navigate pages: http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Submachine_guns2?action=history Did you really think that code was deployed that way just for the fun of it? I KNOW you should have noticed they were put in place that way not 2 edits before your own (on all of them), by an admin. So what you did was basically mass revert an admin. With no comment nor rationale.

So yeah. Stop making unwarranted changes to the wikicode. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 12:04, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I admitted I was wrong about the Dash. If something obviously screws with the actual look of a page, I won't go through with it anymore unless it makes sense to, such as being asked to change it. Although, no offense at all, I have no recollection of being told the Dash template was incorrect how I formatted it...so, can you link me where you did? I only knew it was messed up after War up there said it.


 * However, most mass edits I do are not technically me. I have a script that will just go through the text looking for specific things and fix them. Even if they page wont be affected by it at all. I'm not intentionally trying to revert staff edits whatsoever. I tend to stalk the Recently Updated page, and if someone edits a page, I tend to take a look at it, so that I may catch spelling, grammatical, or source code errors. More efficient that way. (It's a pet peeve of mine to have lowercase templates with 1 or less parameters...so I hope that satisfactorily answers that matter)


 * As for the template, I have no idea what you are referencing. The fact that I alphabetized and added missing guns to them? I'm lost with that one.


 * Sorry if it was some kind of inconvenience
 * 12:23, February 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hum... A script you say. I hadn't thought of that. My apologies then if it wasn't intentional on your end. The repeated nature of the change was getting on my nerves. Still, try to avoid having your script change things just because it can, (especially if the only reason is "pet peeve").
 * The dash template was from the above conversation regarding layout and leading empty line ("I already had to revert your widespread changes of putting a space before the template"). Since I thought you were doing this by hand, I'd have figured you noticed you had uppercased them, and the revert re-lowercased them.
 * This is what I'm talking about:
 * http://borderlands.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ASubmachine_guns2&diff=284228&oldid=284220
 * http://borderlands.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ASubmachine_guns2&diff=285241&oldid=284228
 * So again, my apologies if the actual changes where collateral from an automatic script. But it is generating some noise that tends to be interpreted as un-warranted change.
 * I'm glad we had this conversation. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 12:40, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * A last note, I did that to the template as it allows for a much easier time of adding things to the list. The comments made it confusing to look at if you are newer to Wikicode, and obviously had the added problems that if you forgot to close the comment, it would break the page.


 * Also, I'll take a look at the script, and if it's what you want, I'll have it not capitalize anymore. For that matter, it would be a huge benefit to throw together a mock page, that includes all possible templates in the order and formatting that is required. That way, I can modify the script to be exact.


 * Hoping for a quick reply, as work is swamping me recently. 17:38, February 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, sorry for not replying immediately, but wanted to take a day to think about it. Arguably, messing up the wiki code and completely destroying a page is better than subtly messing it up. With the current code, inserting a line break will subtly mess up the page (and go un-noticed). That's a technical detail. I'm not a huge fan of the "solid block of text" that makes it difficult (for me) to find and edit things, as opposed to the the more "column" based approach, where everything is aligned. As a side note, once things are aligned, you can sort things alphabetically with tools like notepad++'s TextFX easily: I actually caught a couple of entries that were out of place back when I did the change.
 * In any case, it is not very relevant now anymore, since they are all mostly stable anyways, so no point in touching them anyways. We'll keep your code, as it is better than doing a back and forth.
 * As I said, it was mostly the feeling that you were creating a lot of code churn, just 'cause. I guess that's not the case really.

<- Back to the subject of the script. As long as you aren't *fixing* things, I'd say your script shouldn't be touching them. One of the things that always creeps up on the wiki, and needs constant fixing, are non-wiki internal links, non-wiki links to wikipedia, non-wiki cross-links. Also, what with the new visual editor, we have a lots of blocks of text that are wrapped inside useless span blocks that need to be removed. Long story short, if it is wrong fix it. If it's *pure* style, use your best judgement. If I see anything I don't like, I'll be more level headed about it.

One of the things (I don't think you touch it anyways), you shouldn't be touching too much are section headers ( "==header==" vs "== header ==" ): The problem is that doesn't matter much what you do, because the visual editor will clobber it anyways (in an inconsistent manner too :.

One last note: If you *do* want to make wide spread clean up (even if it's a minor thing), you are free to do so (I'm usually open minded to them) provided: happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 09:23, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) The change is complete (and not 50% of the pages)
 * 2) Your edits are marked as tool assisted (eg "using AWB").
 * 3) You give someone (me or war, or another admin) a heads up about what you are about to do. Not that you necessarily need validation before starting, it's just so that it doesn't blindside us when we are trying to understand what happened.
 * Alright. If you're are fine with it, I'll do a test run of a few changes on the Torgue pages. Sounds good? 12:12, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 12:15, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright. And the Visual Editor is the worst thing Wikia has introduced. It has never been a successful editor for maintaining Wikia standards, and I doubt it ever will. I'm not sure you know this or not, but to prevent a page from being edited in anything but source code, you can add __NOWYSIWYG__ to the page. It disables the Visual Editor on that page. 12:19, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Anon, and wiki-noobs also have a lot to contribute. If it makes the place more friendly for them for a "drive-by contribution", then good for us. As long as using it remains a choice, we should be fine. It's not perfect yet, and creating trouble right now, but that doesn't mean we should just write it off, or prevent other users from choosing how they edit. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 12:26, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh no, you misunderstand. I'm just alerting you to the ability to turn it off.  I am just saying that it's something you have the ability to do on pages if the need arises.  20:10, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

<- Looks good to me. If your script could also make it so that there are NO empty lines after the weapon pages, that would be even better (remember the last conversation we had). Here is an example of those "strange" cases I was talking about: The problem might also be inside template:for so I'll have to investigate that. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 18:58, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Before: http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Cracked_Sash_(Borderlands_2)?oldid=305473
 * After: http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Cracked_Sash_(Borderlands_2)?oldid=305488
 * Diff: http://borderlands.wikia.com/index.php?title=Cracked_Sash_%28Borderlands_2%29&diff=305488&oldid=305473
 * Alert me if you can come up with the cause. I'll run a test to see if any of the other templates cause the same thing to happen.   Mad  Crayolaz   ®  19:39, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, so, I ran a few tests. Whenever there is a non-infobox typed template above an infobox, it seems to auto insert a new line. I can't figure out what exactly causes this, but these are the conditions it seems to happen on. You can see an example of this at User:DynastyW/sandbox. The top one is with a line under the infobox, the bottom is without. Not sure what you can made of it.   Mad Crayolaz   ®  19:45, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll look tomorrow. My guess is the infobox has a single blank line, which is not enough to generate a br by itself, but can when combined with another template. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 21:58, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hum... "No longer places a space after infobox if there is a template above it". So how does that work? When someone adds a template over the infobox, the page breaks, because you had already put an empty line. Or when we remove the stub template, your script kicks in to remove the empty line? Then when we add the cleanup template the page breaks again? Sounds like a maintenance nightmare. Why don't we just always remove the empty line, or leave it unchanged? Seems like you are really going out of your way for just for this. Anyways, do as you feel. I'll be AFK from the next 10 days BTW. Sorry. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 17:47, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Callipeen?curid=61518&diff=305617&oldid=304865
 * Looks like your script is actually always removing it actually? In any case, thanks for the cleanup. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 18:17, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Humm. It's not the most consistent thing then, it seems.  Anyway, let me know if you have any fixes for the template spacing issue.  Also, if you have any idea why my signature is wonky, love some assistance...  Mad  Crayolaz   ®  19:04, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * What's it supposed to do, and how is it "wonky"? I'll have to look into it when I get back anyways. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 21:52, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, when I sign a page, it's supposed to put down a but instead, it just pastes the code for the signature itself, as you can see above...not sure why.  I was able to fix it for this Wikia before changing the sig by using it over 2 pages, and then having it display one page...but now it wont work for this.   Mad  Crayolaz   ®  22:06, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Try asking Dr.F, Razldazlchick or Lynne1984. It's a sig config issue, and (I think) they know their way around these kinds of things better. Or just sandbox it until it works I guess. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 22:36, March 1, 2013 (UTC)

Entry removed on Fibber/Variant Chart
Hi DynastyW,

I saw you removed a variant I added to the Fibber Variant Chart. The comment you left on the edit said: "Copied previous entry without checking actual effects." I don't understand what you mean by that and if I did something wrong, I'd like to know what it was so I don't do it again. I don't think I copied a previous entry I created a new one.

Damagedone (talk) 08:04, March 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi again, Sorry I worked out what you meant. Saw I hadn't changed two of the entries to reflect the actual weapon card. I have re-added it with the corrections. Apologies. Damagedone (talk) 08:34, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I shoulda posted something on your wall to explain what I meant. Glad you figured it out though.  Keep up the good work with the pictures, and don't forget the most important rule of thumb: categorize or die.   Mad  Crayolaz   ®  11:19, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Are you a Chat Mod or a Chatty Mod?
Hiya!

I am not actually a Chat Mod. It was one of the Evil Dr. F experiments gone awry (he also decided he liked his name in pink).

I was labeled as a Chat Mod before there was a chat feature on this wiki. I think Dr. F was saying that I type a lot with no real content!

I was a liaison to new users. My work focused on preserving edits that fell below standard but had nuggets of information.

I understand what the editors must have went through with all the new information, speculation, bad edits, and vandalism thrown in.

I am not sure my role is still valid, in that respect.

My role is a bit controversial and it depends if the community wants to keep the status quo or allow content that might not be popular but is valid (such as My Little Pony trivia).

As a chat moderator, I would have no idea what I am doing, although I have no problem learning if you need help. I am comfortable on talk pages where people are free to speak their mind (and I can get into much more trouble). But am willing to help, as I said. 05:45, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey there Robot! I am a bit unsure if this is what you are asking, so bear with me.
 * I am a "Live! Chat" moderator, otherwise known as the official position Wikia acknowledges. CrackLawliet is my lackey, and we moderate the chat room. However, after reading your post, I would like to offer this:
 * I am looking for a third chat mod, and would like to propose that you take that position. Crack and I sadly have the same time zone, so we are essentially on at the same time. However, it seems yours is drastically different than ours, and I would LOVE to have someone who obviously meets a a high level of criteria to join. Essentially, we do what you have done, but in a much more "on the spot" way. I think you would be perfect, and you obviously are great with the community, so you could probably handle situations where I tend to be a bit rash better than I ever could.
 * For what it's worth, I am one of the editors that, if the majority of the edit is bad, I just undo it. I think your position, official or not, is not only a very valid one, but one where I have never seen someone take interest in. I congratulate you on that. As to it being controversial, I think your actions have spoken louder than words, and I truly think your return is totally warranted, regardless of what people say. The new info coming in could really use to have a nice polishing by your expert hands. However, I would be glad to see your return regardless of what you do.
 * Hope you got the answers you were looking for!
 * 14:52, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh DAMN!!! I can also take on the role of chatty mod as well, although I need to buff up on the policies and such. (Robot taking on more than he can chew) And I thought a blank wiki was hard until I found the copy/paste button.

That being said, I want the entire community to know one thing that seems to be a common misconception. There truly is no hierarchy on a wiki, in fact, the more "power" you have only means the more responsibility you have to the community. For example, The least powerful person, in the regard to content, is Dr. F.

The content is determined by the users of this wiki, as is the policies. If the community decides to do away with trivia, Dr. F has to oblige (no matter how he personally feels). His opinion might be respected and he might have power over administration decisions, such as page layout and categorizations, but his responsibility is continuity AND community both. So never underestimate your power as a contributor.

That also goes with a chat moderator since you have more responsibility on chat demeanor than actual chat content. You also have the responsibility of posting forums for major chat events in regard to changing directions related to content on the wiki, to let the users know how things are developing (behind the scenes).

In that context, if you still want me, let me know and give me a link to the chat policies. Thanks. 16:27, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Spelling
On this wiki we ask that all editors remain tolerant of distinctions in English spelling - this is a well-known situation. The block may be heavy handed, but in your case it is also the result of persistent abuse. Will you learn to behave cooperatively, or do you wish to keep creating problems? -- WarBlade (talk) 02:53, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oops! again
Thanks for fixing another of my mistakes. (Vision/Variant Chart) I really shouldn't edit when I'm half asleep. Lordberticus (talk) 05:52, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * No probs. I always stalk edits made to variant charts, I've done site wide editing of them to the point where I've set up a solid format for them, so it's easy to spot when someone messes up :P  Keep up the good work though.  And, preferably take pictures of the guns in their default position, no moving them around.  It helps validate the gun, and just looks better overall.  19:03, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

user space policy
The policy on this wiki regarding user space is found in flaming and adult language... I suggest you please familiarize yourself with all policy, since you are a chatmod. 02:43, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Linking me to policies for what reason? And you are neither an admin nor superior. I take it you therefore cannot be the person to decide arbitrarily. If you want to be more clear, do so. Else, stop. It's a bit bothersome. 02:59, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Look, its not fun enforcing users rights to do stupid stuff, but it is my job on this wiki as liaison. I am suggesting that you familiarize yourself with policy so you dont go around enforcing idealism that goes against policy. Thats it and thats all... you do what you like, of course, because I also have to enforce your right to do just that. But if you try and undo a userpage wipe from a user, its my job to enforce the users right to wipe his/her page. Whether it is bothersome to you or not, is not my concern. I do not wish to debate back and forth, i realize that you probably dont know about it. If you would like the policy to change, please make a forum. 03:54, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

P.S. under the flaming section #4 from the above link... sry i just saw the clear part. 03:56, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * My mistake. I wasn't attempting to revert his USER page. I thought he wiped his Talk page. That is something you aren't supposed to wipe, and Nagamarky should have reverted it. I must have chosen the wrong edit to revert. Obviously, as long as the userspace doen't break any Terms of Use, we really don't have any rights to wipe it. 12:32, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

I apologize for coming at you so hard, I really didnt see you asking for clarity. Not sure how I skipped over that. Just to clarify further, the definition of userspace is any space that includes the users name, even the talk page. Yes, even blogs. Usually if a blog is messed with (more put in at the top or comments deleted) Dr.F will put a note that responses may or may not be relevant anymore. If a talk page or sections is just deleted, it is just a deletion (I have never archived my talk page). If the user did not like what was in their own talk page, they have the right to get rid of it (most would archive unwanted sections sooner so it would be out of order in the archive, Ive seen nagy do that). On a personal note: I still have to defragment my own talk page, bringing back what I want to keep as a reminder to myself and deleting what is no longer relevant.

Extra note: it is a relative recent event that blogs, profiles and talk pages (i think all three) can no longer contain links to products, which can be misconstrued as advertisements. Which reminds me that I have a userpage/(personal archive) which I need to fix at some point. 17:23, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * That isn't so. Although it is under that user's profile, the talk page isn't meant for them. It is meant for the community, as it is a way to document conversations on topics, which may need to be later recalled. It shouldn't fall under the jurisdiction of the user to choose what can stay on the page or not. 18:03, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

That's what the policy means here. You should take that up with Dr.F, I will not start making points back and forth here. He definitely needs to be included (drawn in) to any points made. If you like, direct him to this chat section and I would definitely ask him about it if it concerns you. 23:12, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

I will say one thing: it makes someone more comfortable to be on the wiki if they can delete stuff that someone is just spouting off. I dont know if that is the reason its like that or not (i was not here for the making of the flaming policy). 23:19, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Pull the pin
I need a second opinion... is pulling the pin on your friend fun? How about when your friend does it to you? 18:10, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * You know that anything is fun in pairs :D 19:46, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

RE: Chat Ban
Hey, Crayolaz. It was kind of a surprise to me, but apparently, I've been banned from chat by you for a year, on account of "misbehavior". I would sincerely like to know why, and thank you for your time.

Louis Bancroft (talk) 18:05, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would have changed the reason to "Bigotry", but it is not a possibility with chat bans, for some odd reason. It forces that reason. Anyway. By bigotry, I meant your usage of the word shemale. It is politically incorrect, and offensive. The correct word is transgendered. This violated the Terms of Use for the entire Wikia as it is, so my banning you for a year is me being nice. It really should have been a permaban, but I am hoping that if you are still around after a year, you can rejoin and be 1 year more mature. 19:13, June 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * To be quite frank, I never used the term "shemale", as it was used by another user. I simply dropped in on the conversation. I may have made a reference connecting to the transgender subject, but I never used the term "shemale", and I am mildly offended that you would begin to infer that I am in some way, shape, or form, a bigot.
 * Louis Bancroft (talk) 21:26, June 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Louis, I specifically remember you said shemale. CrackLawliet (talk) 21:28, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I' recall making a reference to a 1999 film regarding the topic of transgenders, but never did I use the term "shemale". You must have my dialogue confused with another user, who I do remember used the term.
 * Louis Bancroft (talk) 21:36, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Louis Bancroft (talk) 21:36, June 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Don't mean to intrude here, but aren't there chat-logs somewhere for exactly this reason? If neither Crack nor Crayola is willing to go through them, I could give it a go. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 02:17, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are sorely mistaken. Chat logs do not exist. 02:37, June 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's not good. That's kind of a basic concept for chats. Wikia should really work on that.
 * Is there any way to prove this one way or another, then? If not, then considering that the offence in question is RELATIVELY inconspicuous (meaning not on the order of using extremely terms such as um a word starting with n which we all know about), then perhaps Louis should be let off with a warning this time, and the next time/first time/whatever he does it a screencap be taken so that there's evidence? Orrrr you could ban him for less time than a year, considering that a year is a ridiculously long time for a single offence. Or you could ban me for speaking out of term. I don't know. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 02:47, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * See, banning YOU would be abuse of power. Banning Louis is not. It is not against the Borderlands Wikia rules that he cannot use biggoted language, it is actually against Wikia as a system's rules, in the Terms of Use, biggoted language is listed as a reason for an account to be DEACTIVATED, so me giving him a 1 year ban, and not infinite, nor reporting it to Wikia is my way of being nice to him. I can't really do anything more for him, nor will I give him a "warning", as he has broken Wikia wide rules, not BL Wikia rules. 05:14, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Talk Page Vandalism
Hey, Crayolaz. I'm not sure who the anonymous user who is responsible for this is, but I found this gem on my talk page [It's below Robot's message]:http://imgur.com/XTewFtA

Could you help me figure out who this is? Thanks, man.

Louis Bancroft (talk) 15:23, June 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Um, saving time here: it was someone named Rulertoner. Checked the page history. There's a little arrow next to Leave Message; it'll open up a drop-down menu.


 * Hope this helps. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 15:28, June 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Found him. Thanks, Snowskeeper. Apparently, he raised hell on the Red Dead wiki. Louis Bancroft (talk) 15:44, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Horde of 'Horros'
Can we pretend that never happened, please? Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 16:52, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Pretend WHAT never happened? ;) 19:10, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

DLC4 Variant Charts.
Hey, Crayolaz. I see that..well, you probably already know. Well, would you mind if I created variant charts for the guns under "Forum:" prefixes since it's pre-release content? I saw your views on my installion of the DLC4 variants last night. So, I thought I'd just make variants of the original DLC4 weapons [i.e. the SWORDSPLOSION!!!]. Of course, levels are not specified, but perhaps it will be more of a minor issue. Tell me what you think. Louis Bancroft (talk) 21:40, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Do not. The pages will be moved out of Forum and into mainspace when the game comes out.  THere is no point in making more pages to move if there is no real important need for it.  22:29, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

burst-fire ?
Hiya. I dont really delve into weapons much. I was just wondering what the point of putting (Burst-Fire ?) underneath Burst fire while zoomed is. And whats the whole hidden note about vendors on about? LoL 06:16, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what the other guy is talking about. Take a look at the format guide I setup for Weapon Variant Charts: http://pastebin.com/nhwWT1NX


 * The Burst-Fire ? is there to stand in for how many bullets are fired when the gun is shot in scoped mode. When the user knows how many times, they change the ? to x[numberoftimes] 15:08, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh, it just looks...bad. I didnt know if it was questioning the burst fire while zoomed, or just asking if it had burst fire when not zoomed. Might I suggest (Burst-Fire count unknown) as a notation, both for clarity and not to look like a question. Just a suggestion.

P.S. The hidden note is because its a picture from the vendors and not actually owned, so the author will never put in a count. He was asking for the notation to be left out, for that reason. 20:57, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand what he means, but standard procedure means that therefore, it's up to question how much, and just will never be filled in. 21:21, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

What do you think of my suggestion on changing the notation? 21:23, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a bit clunky...that's why I would say no to it. Maybe (Burst-Fire Unk.)

It definitely looks better than a question mark. I will leave it up to you then, thanks for the time. 21:52, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

behind closed doors
Yes, Dr.F is the one who mentioned it to me. Its not really a policy thing, it is a common courtesy (and a guideline) to bring forth any actual changes to a wiki to the communities attention first. 03:30, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * What? 03:44, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Proposals to make changes should include the whole community. Not that its a big deal. For instance, Lynne never got to give any input about her color change (not that she would care). Like I said, its not a big deal... I am just surprised at the fact that you were shocked that the forum was moved back. If the community wasnt included, it is natural for people to not know whats going on.

Major changes become a big deal. Also, if you have several people doing minor stuff it only adds to the chaos that is already inherit on wiki's.

That is why it is wiki's guideline to mention changes to the entire community. Just saying. 04:12, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is part of policy. I had Doc TELL me what he wanted done because I didn't understand the policy. This wasn't any individual's choice, he was explaining what needed to be done in this case. There is no reason to consult the community over policy that has already been created. Thus, yes, I am surprised, and I should be. 16:55, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh, I see you point on that one. I forgot about that policy. That would call for an edit summary with a explanation "per policy", keeping peeps "in the loop" so to speak. Again its common courtesy, not policy to do so. The surprise would be more like an admin who forgot about the policy, rather than "I gave a the very reason in the summary". Again, I see your point and warblades answers are sound enough as well. Hopefully we dont have lots of surprise like this in the future. 17:54, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was just wondering if WarBlade forgot, or something. 18:15, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

And I didnt mean to jump on you. It has been a trend in this new community to either not give adequate summaries or argue in said summaries, rather than take it to a talk page. There was also a trend to have one person in chat back up another person in chat, in regard to content (MLP trivia, for instance). All are against wiki etiquette. This was the first time I got to address etiquette (in regard to "be specific" summaries and adequate notification). The more people who are aware of the etiquette, the better. And I regard you as a major person to lead the way for others. 18:39, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Burst fire notation
So yeah, I'm looking over the articles on various Dahl weapons and seeing the infamous "(Burst-Fire ?)" all over the variant charts. Virtually nobody writes this information down, so it's basically the default entry. Sad, but there you go. The problem with this is that it looks really odd and clunky. The first time I saw it I thought some editor with poor punctuation was trying to question whether or not it should be spelled "Burst-Fire" with the hyphen instead of as it appears on the card.

Anyway, I was thinking about it and I have a simple suggestion: change the notation to (X-round burst), e.g. "(3-round burst)", "(2-round burst)", and most importantly, "(?-round burst)". The conveys the same information, but makes it immediately obvious what is being noted. The current notation is confusing to say the least.

Anyway, just a thought. -- Yukichigai (talk) 06:11, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Brilliant man. I have been puzzling over what a good notation replacement should be, but I was supremely stumped, TBH.  I think your suggestion is the least clunky/most informational method.  I'm sure 'bot will say it needs to be put to a vote, but hey, there has been no real policy regarding this.  It was really just me imposing a format I finalized.  I see no reason to mass-change it to this, honestly.  02:10, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent, glad to help. -- Yukichigai (talk) 00:29, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Final edits and account deactivation.
Good morning. I have spent a fair amount of time here, but today I am releasing my account and ending my career here on the wiki. Thank you for providing me with the information nescessary, and I will no longer be using my account. Louis Bancroft (talk) 12:27, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm? Why is that?  14:44, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Variants with missing and/or broken images
I came across a variant chart (1340 Shield/Variant Chart) with a number of missing images and was just wondering if it was proper to remove entries without images or with broken file link images. Figured I would ask you, since you appear to be the person behind the current variant charts (very nice btw).

Any and all help is appreciated. 00:39, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Remove all posts with a missing image or no image.  02:01, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Greeter Templates
I actually did attempt to put them side by side... It didn't exactly work... I'm looking into fixing that now. EDIT:Right, I'm not sure why they won't go side-by-side... Unless there is something I'm missing (likely), because if placed on the same line, they do go underneath one another naturally. 18:44, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

I answered the question and fixed the profile on killas pages. If your interested in how it was done, that is. 19:52, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

New Guide page and Category
I would like your opinion on the final analysis of this proposal. Thanks. 03:06, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Guides are good I guess. 18:14, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Re:template:infobox edit
Excuse me, but I did have a reason to edit that infobox. I recently proposed this idea, it was somewhat approved by the community, so in order to have the Switch template work, I had to edit the Infobox template. Also, I wasn't complaining, I was simply expressing how that infobox was rather chaotic. Even more, I didn't "break" the template. There was a little error but that didn't cause the template to stop working at all, it just added an extra |}} where there shouldn't be one. Which I fixed already. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't call me names and insult me the first time you talk to me. 18:08, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dude, you really aren't all that. You made an error, and on a template you still had no reason to edit. There was very little interest in your proposition whatsoever, and thus, you shouldn't have gone forward with what you did. I'm not calling you names, I am telling you you are wrong to do what you did, and made mistakes while you did it. 21:56, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

22:15, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * I contacted all the admins and the main team members, I've had two of the admins' consent, all the others didn't respond. I think I had reason to edit the infobox. Veggienater also implied that "I better get to it", which I did. Yes, I made an error on the template, but apart from just two curly brackets, everything else was still in order. I fixed that mistake less than a day after. I don't think this is that big of a deal, it's fixed and the only issue here is that I apparently wasn't allowed to take any actions towards my location infobox image "plan". Tldr; I wasn't doing anything wrong, I made a mistake while doing what I was supposed to do and I corrected that mistake quickly.
 * I'm not going to respond to how idiotic this is beyond the following -- your reasoning isn't sound by any means, as the admins hold no more power than any other user. So if the staff said you can do it, and you didn't secure the community's vote, then you have no reason to do what you did. 22:21, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

In my experience with Wikia, the admins actually do hold more power than the average Wikia editor, this being administrator right. They are admins for a reason, it is a position that stands above regular editors. Okay, in a proposition like this, both the admins and the community should have a say in it and should come to an agreement. I am the best robot, InfinitysCross, KillarDeez, Razldazlchick, Dr. Clayton Forrestor and Veggienater commented on the blog and agreed to the change. I sent a message to Claptrap, Happypal, WarBlade, Fryguy42, Nagamarky, Fenrakk101, NOhara24 and to Daemmerung, asking them to comment on my blog post and join the discussion. None of them did, which led to 6 prominent users agreeing with the change and 8 others ignoring it. What more do you ask?? 22:29, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

I point no fingers and aim to step on no toes, I'm just relaying information. 22:39, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Proposals will often be handled in multiple steps here, and it is generally expected that the technical side (if any) will be discussed. In this case, no discussion of code occurred beyond your asking of Dr. F to add some Java. The proposal process is meant to take time, it's not a trivial matter. Also, I feel it should be pointed out that Robot supported A change, but not the one you made.

22:44, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess I was getting tired of waiting for the non-technical side that I just wanted to get on it already. I didn't think this would be that big of a deal, since it's only the images in the infobox of location pages, hardly a Wiki-wide issue. But yeah, I think I handle this stuff a little more loosely on my Wiki, there's it's just "hey I have an idea" "oh yeah what is it" "this" "oh cool lemme look into that and I'll help you with that, sounds cool". If it's different here and more administrative, then that's cool, don't blame me for going too fast and don't call me/anything I say idiotic...? Be cool man, be cool.

The main issue is that we DO have one central template, and if anything happens to it, the whole wiki suffers. I don't blame you for doing what you did, but I would say that in future, permission is better than forgiveness. We do tend to take changes that will affect a large portion of the wiki (or an important template) fairly slowly. And I would suggest that it is always important to find out how things are run at a wiki you are new to. Regardless of past experience, things can always be different. Sadly, this wiki is not extremely active, so getting community consensus can be difficult, but it is not impossible. I say that we all just mark this as a learning experience. 22:52, August 8, 2013 (UTC) Oh and not to stir up things, but I did have some problems with WarBlade, as he told me to create a blog post for my change proposition, and after I did, never cared for it and ignored my messages where I asked to give his comment on the blog post. I'm not defending myself, just maybe giving a reason why there wasn't a clear consensus between and the Wiki, because of a communication problem. 23:06, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing this up, I rushed myself into something that I shouldn't get myself rushed into, because I'm more of a "everything is good, why not get to it as soon as possible?!"-type person, which may cause some minor problems, like the temporary error on the infobox template, though I would like some credit for fixing that smoothly.

I'm not reading all of what you guys said. But I will say, no, just because they have the power to moderate the wikia does not give them more POWER in say. Their opinions usually carry more influence, but in actuality, they matter no more than any other user. It's misconceptions like that that cause them to abuse their powers. 00:20, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

I am in full agreement with everything you just said, Crayola. You pretty much just summed up why liaisons are important here, to make sure that it is known that the playing ground is level, and that there are those willing to defend it. To what you have said, Bere, first of all, thank you for fixing the error. I do believe that some credit should also go to Robot. In regards to WarBlade, it is the desion of the user whether they will comment on a blog or not, regardless of prior invovlement. If he were to respond, there is no saying that this would have resolved at all differently. We cannot know what would happen if the past were different, we can only move forward and aim for greatness, or at the very least goodness. 00:36, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

If I may weigh in on this... I have not read everything but I would like to point out that the admins have power from support of the community in terms of content. They have (almost) absolute power in terms of format and coding. Dr.F holds himself completely distant as far as content (this is the best approach but not followed on all wikia). Dr.F told me on steam to keep track and let him know when Bere got 10 votes. As far as I am concerned, Dr.F changed his mind and endorsed the project himself (I have not asked him or anything). Dr.F is the final say as far as format goes... Any format change has to go through him first. If Dr.F endorsed the change, its pretty much a go (he was not vague in any way). I believe that there is also the issue of how many people were contacted and the fact that no one had anything negative to say, including everyone involved "here and now" in this conversation (this might be why Dr.F chose to endorse the change).

Dr.F also had the chance to say that everything was not worked out, but instead added the Java script as the biggest sign of his endorsement. The fact that an error occurred (which didn't really hurt the wiki, just made people wonder) and was fixed is rather insignificant on the whole.

The wiki will be better looking if the project is finished (per veg comment) which is the entire point and all that really matters. 02:33, August 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * There is nothing known as absolute power on a Wikia. If something is disputed, it must be put to a vote. Or the parties must come to a decision between themselves. Staff DO NOT hold sole power of anything. They cannot go around changing the formatting of pages whatsoever. Bot, you need to brush up on how a Wikia runs, if that's what you truly believe. 02:44, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the sysops can implement change (complete and total), including striping all users (and admins) of the right to edit. I have seen it myself at wikia central where someone wanted to promote "their" wiki. Not invite others to edit but to go look at it. No one had the right to edit on the wiki. The Users at community central jumped all over the person (of course). But the way wiki is set up is that the main person who does the code and format of the wiki is the sysops with admins to help. This is to ensure that the format is sound and cohesive.

You are totally correct in what a wiki is supposed to be but there is abuse of power. This wiki is probably the best one, in that Dr.F promotes the very ideals of wikia (everything your saying). This gives all Users extreme power over content, but needs a good core of users to keep the circus sane. Admins help with that also.

To put it shortly, if a coder (my term) comes in and tells Dr.F how he could save 30 lines per page in code, Dr.F could implement the change without consulting any User whatsoever (saving 30 lines times 3098 pages). I am just spitting numbers out and don't really know what I am saying, but Dr.F could implement the change for the sake of data base space, for instance.

Please reference the following: completely sad blog and completely sad history.

Its rather depressing. 08:12, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

P.S. When I use the term format, I am not talking about page format. I am talking about the background format of the wiki. Administrative stuff like cat pages, templates, etc. I know there is more involved in that but I am using the term "loosely" (habit from InfinitysCross? lol). Anyway, just saying the format of the wiki, not the format (layout) of pages. 08:48, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

The perfect example is the category:Things that bug Dr.F

This is an errant category on this wiki and has no place here. Dr.F can delete the category with absolute power and authority because of this reason. The dilemma is simply that Dr.F believes in (and has policy for) complete autonomy of userspace. The only time this ever came up is that advertising is in violation of wiki terms of use, so blogs, talk pages and profile pages that were linking products needed addressing (now they are forbidden).

Dr.F needs to sort out what to do about users making errant categories on userspace. That is why I made it (plus its funny as hell). He most likely will ignore it (so it will be around forever, haha). Its really the perfect category with the perfect content. But he may decide that its not good for the wiki so he can delete it without making blog posts, forum posts, getting a vote on the subject or any such non-sense to clean up the format of the wiki. 11:40, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you on base premise, Robot, but not entirely. If saving those 30 lines of code caused all infoboxes to turn purple, or made italic text not work, or had some other effect on the wiki, it should be brought to community attention, if not a vote. As to categories, I'm not a sysop (obviously) and I have had some pull in that area, mostly because I do so much categorizing, and I watch all the maintenance pages. On a seperate note, that category of yours is on one of the maintenance pages... and it's driving me slightly nuts (since I can't actually categorize it). I do agree however, that some users, and especially admins, do have more pull in the community. I would not say they have absolute power, but certainly the ability to use power more easily. 12:45, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Oh geez, a lot happened here while I was gone. Let's get to replying then.

MadCrayolaz: Why are you not reading everything what we said? How can we expect to have a conversation with you if you don't even listen to what we're saying...? And yes, I think I fully understand your views on the position of admins versus editors, but the only thing I want to press is that admins eventually have more rights than the average contributor. It's just the way it is. Of course, in discussion, an admin's vote doesn't weigh in more than any other, this is true, but the administrators are admins for a reason, they're the leaders of the Wiki, obviously they just hold more power. They have the power to block users/IPs, delete pages and files, rename files, edit MediaWiki and other stuff. You're telling me that admins are completely the same as the average editor...? I know what you're talking about, they're equals in a discussion but I'm talking from a Wikia perspective here and it seems you keep disagreeing even from that perspective.

Robot: ''Dr.F also had the chance to say that everything was not worked out, but instead added the Java script as the biggest sign of his endorsement. The fact that an error occurred (which didn't really hurt the wiki, just made people wonder) and was fixed is rather insignificant on the whole.''

The wiki will be better looking if the project is finished (per veg comment) which is the entire point and all that really matters. This is pretty much what I'm trying to say, thanks. But yeah, back to the original purpose of this "discussion", WarBlade asked for a test infobox template with the Switch template implemented in it, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. I would say "If that gets approved by WarBlade, I'll get to the articles" but I have a feeling you guys will protest and demand a community vote, so I guess I'll update that blog post when I'm done with the infobox test template. I encourage you to comment on it when I did, thanks. 17:42, August 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I wont read it because you all write page long responses, and I am busy. Summarize it instead of being a blow hard, could you? 18:41, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yep... Dr. F fully endorsed the change, given community response. 19:36, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * And? It means nothing more than his opinion is for it. And no, staff don't have the ability to change policy willy nilly. All things go to a vote, and everyone has equal say. Bot, you really are mistaken. 20:36, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

The above links that I left shows that a sysops can prevent every user from editing. You are correct that on this wiki that the "staff" have made and practice policy as you say. The staff of wikia do change things to whatever they want. The user profile pages for instance has changed with no warning unless you were on community central at the time and they just posted what was going to happen. The same thing happened to the core code of all wikia which people are still upset about (something about the monaca skin) that I was not around for.

Staff can change anything they want, if it changes the format of wiki "for the better". Ask Dr.F sometime about staff changing all of wikia wholesale. 21:01, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

This is just a quick example that I could find on staff changing things how they see fit by informing everone the day before. This is a wiki wide change (all wiki's). Its just how its done. 21:10, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Look, I made a blog post to consult the community about the change, as WarBlade, KillarDeez and Robot suggested. I got positive responses from six users on the Wiki. If you oppose the idea, just say so and voice your opinion on the blog post. Then it will be one opposing and six voting for the change. So then what will have changed...? Nothing...? You keep hammering on on how everyone has an equal say, yet you haven't even properly expressed how you feel about the change in infoboxes, the actual purpose of this discussion. I approached the community about it and the community agreed. Really though, what more do you want. Just this instant, this moment, would you like something to be different, do you not agree with the obvious outcome of the blog...? 21:21, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

I think that water is under the bridge Bere... The thread has taken another turn, which is discussing power and abuse of power on a wiki.

This is another link that shows abuse of power. 21:29, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

@Bere, this conversation changed topic a while ago.

@Crayola & Robot, you two are never going to get anywhere with this arguement. One of you is saying that corruption can happen and the other is saying that it is happening here. You're both right. The only thing that I would add is that since people assume that Admins have more power (which they do, if you only consider user rights. They can do more things, even if they do need consensus first), their oppinions hold more sway than they perhaps should.

@Anonymous Lurker, SCREE SCREE.

00:01, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Different note
Instead of coming on your talk page every time there is a problem, I would like to take the time to tell you the things that I appreciate about you. These qualities are invaluable to a wiki. I apologize if I don't express this enough. I really do not mean to fill up your talk page with defining problems, which may result in apparent negativity. I am glad your a integral part of this wiki. 11:49, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) You are mad as a hatter Just kidding

Seriously though (Different note)
I usually let you guys know about stuff that I have picked up on because I have been around the block. I don't mean to come off as a pompous ass and am not 100% correct on everything (mostly about coming off as a pompous ass, I guess). 11:49, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Uhm... What did I how?
Right... So I've kinda been doing some work with BL1 variants on the downlow (because it wasn't obvious to anyone looking at the wiki activities, or my project list). I was originally going to only use galleries, but I figured that using actually variant tables would improve it and make it slightly more likely that this project can actually be moved out of my userspace and to the wiki proper.

I have run into an... issue. Here is a beginning of an attempt at having multiple variant charts on one page. Obviously, its not working (issue with ref tags from all variant tables after the first one; images from first table listed after each variant table). I bow to your wisdom of variant tabling and ask if you might know of a way to fix this.

If you do decide to help me here, I give you full permission to edit on those pages to see if anything works. If it's not possible at all... then... well crud.

Thank you for any help in this matter,

04:09, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look, but I don't think it's possible due to the sheer fact that templates cannot, for better use of terminology, "talk" with each other. Thus, there is no way for it to know to continue onto a new reference number. However, I'll give it some thought. 04:46, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for agreeing to look into it. I had hoped that clear tags would act like walls between the templates so that the reference lists could coexist, sadly that doesn't work... Even if it turns out nothing can be done, at least all the coding will still be (assumably) correct. 05:21, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said above, no, the code would just be impossible to do. I checked, but there is no way to do it as far as I know. Ask WarBlade, he'll know better than I, although, I imagine he would say thhe same thing. 15:03, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Its possible that the what code element you want to divide from the rest  will work, although I have not played with it much. 09:05, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * is an HTML tag. It doesn't do anything for what we are talking about 15:03, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh, thanks. No wonder it never works the way I think it should LOL. 19:13, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

I meant that the coding for each individual variant chart will be correct, not all of them together. I'm hoping to purpose variant chat pages for all BL1, barring that, I'll move the individual tables into the appropriate talk page. I don't plan to keep all the charts together, I just didn't want to make 50 user pages. Thanks for your help, at least now I can stop trying to fix it. 22:50, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Tekmaniac789's Variants
I was just looking at the August 29th patch info, & according to this page], (PC patch info) the second bullet of the patch info states that they "Added Zoom amount to weapon cards." So my guess is that Tekmaniac789's variants are legit, just taken after the patch. Ty & yw. =P Canti-sama(talk) 23:31, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for coming back late. I was moving into my PC room. Just wanted to say thanks for being specific, I was confused by it. 02:03, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Skin drop rarity
Do you know anything about the drop rate on skins? I have been resetting the Assassinate the Assassins mission to confirm rarity from the skins obtained from them (the Krieg skin also needs a better pic for that one). I have gotten 2 Emperor drops from the assassins after many runs and not one skin. I didn't even know that they could drop a legendary at the time LOL.

Could skins be a rarer drop than legendaries? Seriously? Geez. 02:35, September 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of all peopel, you should know best :P 02:57, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

No, not really. I mostly just compiled info that other people already had. I made the connection to rarity by obtainment but the drop info is ambiguous. Confirming one drop (thankfully) confirms all the characters. Then there is the mystery of Handsome Jacks Mask being blue on PS3... sigh. Anyways, writing down every skin obtained helps but I need to get them first. 03:26, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

'Fishy' Weapon Stats
Hey just logged and saw your concern about the so called 'fishy' weapon stats. They aren't hax theyre all 1.6 weapons where they fixed to weapon cards, just been farmin like a nut

RBR?
I've seen a lot of reverts with "RBR" and I have no idea what it means (it's not explained on your profile either). Honestly, I'm just curious. On a side note, the particular usage of it that makes me ask was for the last two reverts on Butcher (Borderlands 2)/Variant Chart, one of which was a revert of a variant I added. I won't argue about you removing it (you are the creator of the charts, I am merely a peon), but I do want to know what was wrong with them (so as to fix variants where I see error and not make error when adding them myself).

I'm just going to tag this on because it's related. Apologies about the capitalization and all what not, I honestly just think it looks nicer. I'm supposing that so long as it looks right on the outside, the code is not important (ie. fire vs incendiary; Incendiary is the proper name, but fire still works in the same way for the template). Just wondering. I'll stop my massive clean fest anyway, I will turn my organization centered mind elsewhere.

03:03, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * RBR stands for Red Box(ed) Removal. Its my shorthand for saying that I am removing an entry because it's box is red. The images are as such when a DLC is missing or the player is not a high enough level. I remove them so that they fit the same look, which is: you have the DLC and are the correct level to use the weapon/item.

As for the tacked on part, it's fine to do what you are doing (I myself did some). However, when you do such a thing, unless you are planning to do all the variants in a very short time of each other, Wikia usually is against that kind of editing, as it doesn't make all other pages conform, and is useless to content itself. Feel free to actually DO that, just make sure you end up doing large chunks of the charts at a time. 04:09, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I need to smack Killa (with a spatula) for peon attitude... Killa needs to look at wikia from a bussiness standpoint. One with a invention clause... Any creation on a wiki is wiki property. More like public property but I hope he gets the point. 04:26, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I wasn't aware that red boxes were unwanted (obviously if the level was obscured, but I didn't know that higher than user level weapons weren't wanted either). Thanks for that.

Ah, I see. Next time I get the code cleaning munchies I'll be sure to hit up a whole bunch of charts at once. Also, sorry for adding the same variants twice, I didn't notice that you'd maintained the coding (didn't think to check the bottom).

Robot: I know I'm not a peon :P, no spatula smacking is required. I like saying things like that and do so on a regular basis. In regards to this subject matter, Crayolaz has a MUCH larger knowledge base than I do. And yes, the public property idea is correct in that whilst on this wiki, you can use it as you like. However, if someone takes it without proper attribution/permission to another wikia (or another site), wikia central will mobilize the troops and destroy them.

I can pretend to be a peon if I want to :( *puts on dorky hat and stoops*

But in all seriousness, and huge text boxes aside, I do understand what you're saying, I didn't really mean I was a peon, simply that Crayolaz knew better due to the subject matter.

EDIT: Am I able to borrow use of your shorthand without transcribing a legend in my profile? It seems quite handy, and if the wiki is already used to your usage of it, I imagine they'd be fine with mine. Nonetheless I ask.

04:54, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Feel free to use my shorthand. I've stopped using most of it though. It really needs to be revised, but do what you will :P 11:26, September 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * LOL okeyy i see i'm not the only one who made this mistake. Glad i searched for RBR in your talk page before I asked. Funny because when I added the variants I was like 'hmm maybe I should retake the pic when I'm a high enough level because this looks odd.' Efpzero (talk) 22:13, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Level 0 Weapons?
I was just wondering what the proper way for recording level was for a weapon that does not have a level requirement. By this I mean guns that you start with (Gearbox weapons), not mission weapons (as those do level, but have no level requirement). I recently added a variant to Renegade/Variant Chart with stated level 0. Alternatively, the level section could remain blank, state level 1 (the level all characters start at anyway), or N/A.

I appreciate your imput, 14:06, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * From what I've been doing, I've been leaving it blank. We try to mirror the weapon card as closely as possible, so level 0 weapons don't even have the required level bar at the top.  Thus, we don't list a level for it.  At least, that's my rationalization of it.  15:11, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Legit?
I'm randomly looking at some variant charts and making sure they're fine (no red boxes, missing data, errant images, etc) and I found this... Is this legit, because so far as I can tell a non-elemental non-prefixed snider is impossible. 16:43, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I don't have access to weapon musts, but I would find it hard to believe it's a fake, as it's not even that good. However, if you feel like checking around source code to see, feel free to verify. 18:54, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Should the main page for Snider be updated to include the possibility for not having an element then? The main reason I was asking to begin with is that the Maliwan "Deals bonus elemental damage" is present... but there isn't actually any elemental damage being dealt... 23:13, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I dunno man. I'm still not sure if it's real. 23:21, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'm thinking it should probably be removed. A non-elemental Maliwan weapon in and of itself should be impossible. I'll remove the entry, but scrawl down the image file name in case it comes to light that it is legit. 16:30, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Nooo, that is a legit gun... I found it myself in a crate. I got pix. I got proof. Its elemental... it says bonus elemental damage. It is my favorite gun, especially since I leveled it up to OP:55. kidding A elemental damage gun w/o an element is modded imho (although I dont know chit about guns). 18:18, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

We need one of those Nagy type people. Unfortunately, there is no one in charge of the "help:is this gun modded" helpdesk thingy... I never really paid attention to that one since, historically, there has always been someone monitoring that page. 18:22, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

We really do need someone to spot check bl2 guns. It was a lot easier with bl1, just because we had all the information we needed. With bl2 we're missing chunks of info and (I at least) can only guess at the legitimacy of a gun using basic factors (I.e. Maliwan weapons being elemental by nature). we could make a personals ad! "Looking for pro-bono video game weapon checker; Borderlands 2 experience required. 12:04, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

If nagy shows up more regular, we should ask him. The second most qualified would be Crayolas, since he monitors the actual variants pages. I never checked game code or anything. Perhaps nailing down mods could be done the opposite way, by trying to recreate the mod. Then there is the whole gun parts thing. It is way to big for me, since I never messed with any of it. 13:56, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Ubox revival
Everyone is busy so many in the community are going to tackle the Ubox revival (BL2) in the Ubox sandbox. If you have time or inclination, I invite you to join this community effort that is probably going to get done slowly. I may have time for 1 or 2 (hopefully more). One at a time is how we will prevail. 16:29, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Burst fire notation (again)
Nothing seemed to be happening on refining the burst fire notation (and more importantly, getting away from that godawful "Burst fire when zoomed(Burst-Fire ?)" crap), so I got bored and changed all the Dahl variant charts to use the format I proposed that you and a few other people seemed to like. If you like it, good. If not, I won't be offended if my edits are reverted. At the very least nobody can say "it'll take too much work to change" anymore. ;) -- Yukichigai (talk) 05:56, October 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * if i may ask, why was this user not advised to create a blog and/or forum for community support?  12:24, October 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Or he could just make one himself. And as I said above, if you wanted to change it, you can do it yourself, just make sure to do it in mass quantities.  15:45, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

...
why did you remove the picture update on the anarchist page?
 * Because it did nothing to the page? The old image was of equivalent quality. 21:55, October 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * yes, but the picture I uploaded was of a lv 50 variant, as is with most of the other pictures of guns.
 * (Webb2800 (talk) 22:27, October 19, 2013 (UTC))
 * We don't use pictures based on level of wep. We base it off of best quality.  04:48, October 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * ok, thank you for the clarification(Webb2800 (talk) 13:18, October 20, 2013 (UTC))