Talk:Angel

Possible Origins
From various clues in the game, It may be concluded that the Guardian Angel could be either an AI created by Tannis either for company in her psychosis, or accidentally created when her computers were fried while she was trying to translate Eridian writings. Another possibility is that the Guardian Angel is a split personality of Tannis, which expressed itself thorough the ECHO network. Other theories postulate that the Guardian Angel is an agent of the Hyperion corporation or is actually an Eridian.

Clues that lead to this are as follows:


 * Tannis "practically invented" the ECHO network which The Guardian Angel relies on. (Contradiction: Yet she could converse to you on Marcus' bus, before you received the Echo Device from the Cl4P-TP. [note: She can still converse with you after the echo network is shut down suggesting she uses another means to communicate. References to her being "blind" indicate she only uses the echo network to track you])
 * Tannis called the ECHO recorder "two timing" suggesting there was another being in her encampment, even though she was the only living human there. This may simply be a symptom of Tannis's extremely loneliness, especially coupled with Tannis's implied sexual relationship with the recorder: "Some cycles I sleep with it and some cycles I make it stay outside my tent."
 * Tannis asks, "Did you get my message?" when you discover her in a cell. She also says, "They were foolish letting me keep my Communicator," meaning that her alter-ego could have sent the message from the cell. (Speculation: This could refer to a garbled message that is sent to the player after the Atlas Corporation shuts down the ECHOnet. Tannis could be attempting to contact the player to inform them of her inprisonment, but due to the shutdown the player recieves only static.)
 * The paper you get from her is written in the form of an argument with an "invisible cellmate".
 * If the Guardian Angel is an AI made by Tannis, this would explain her knowledge of the Vault. (Contradiction: In the early ECHO Journals, Tannis is extremely skeptical of the Vaults existence.) (Contradiction contradiction: Tannis has been on Pandora for several years previous to the player's arrival, which implies that by the time the player arrives Tannis has already been convinced of the Vault's existence.) (Contradiction contradiction contradiction: While the player is on Pandora Tannis announces to New Haven's residents that she has "...concluded that the Vault is more than likely genuine." which implies that she had made this breakthrough only recently, despite the timeline her journals would imply.) (Contradiction contradiction contradiction contra.. this is getting ridiculous: Tannis could have only made the announcement at that point, after reconfirming her belief in her findings. Also, with the last ECHO journal, she says how she's THEN spreading them all over Pandora)
 * In ECHO Journal entries 224 through 493 (obtained during the Hidden Journal: Rust Commons West mission), Tannis discusses translating Eridian writings, then later developing a program for translating the writings, accomplishing "far more" than she had expected herself. It was through this program's translations that Tannis came to believe in the vault. It is possible that, if the Guardian Angel is a AI existing within the ECHO network, it was created by Tannis as the translation program, or is in some way based off of this translation program. This would make the Guardian Angel AI less than a year old (in another Journal entry, Tannis mentions it being about half a year until the 200 year event of the Vault opening) but have a potential lifespan of hundreds of years. Being based off of a Eridian translation program, the AI could have insights into the Eridian writings that Tannis herself does not know about, allowing it to anticipate the coming of the Destroyer at the opening of the Vault.
 * The Guardian Angel tells you to deliver the key to Tannis to get a reward. This implies that either the Angel feels Tannis could do no harm in having the key or that the Angel has a particular bias towards Tannis.
 * Or that the Guardian Angel genuinely regretted the deceit (as GA says herself), and, knowing that Tannis would pay a hefty sum for the key, decided that tipping you off about this would allow some compensation for your troubles.118.210.99.118 10:16, April 11, 2010 (UTC)Anon.


 * When returning one of the Vault keys to Tannis, the Guardian Angel says in a transmission, "Congratulations! You got another piece of the key without my help! ...Or did you? (followed by gentle laughter,)" and Tannis gave you the info and helped you find it.
 * Another possible, and similar theory is that the Guardian Angel was not created by Tannis, but was communicating with her just the same as with the player character and also using Tannis's computer. A comment made after defeating Krom and collecting the Vault Key Fragment in his possession suggests that the Guardian Angel had a hand in leading you to the key, despite never talking to you. Another factor that can also be explained by this, is that Tannis was able to send out a message that, despite being impossible to understand, did reach the player characters Echo Communicator, suggesting that Tannis's communicator was still fully functional, and thus, could be used by the Guardian Angel as her eyes, leading to the argument between Tannis and potentially the Angel, that Tannis wrote in her cell about reactivating the EchoNet. The Angel's ability to hear what is spoken by others is questionable at best, but as she can use the communicators as her eyes, it is very possible that the argument on the napkin was Tannis' method of replying to the Angel.
 * It is also possible that the Hyperion corporation, being the closest direct competitor to Atlas, used their extensive spy and espionage network to find out what Atlas, Tannis, and the player were up to, and work to prevent it. The Guardian Angel may be an agent or AI used by Hyperion to prevent the release of the Destroyer, or to somehow further Hyperion's own ends.
 * An alternate theory is that the Eridians were a cybernetic race (which isn't improbable, given the sophistication of their technology and that all their weapons are electricly based and have names written in binary) and the Guardian Angel is, in fact, a surviving member of the Eridian race, tasked with keeping the Destroyer trapped in the Vault. Being a cybernetic being, the Guardian Angel would be able to interface with the Hyperion spy satellite and link into the ECHO network to watch and communicate with the player.If my lemon of a memory isn't breaking down on me again, I believe the Guardian Angel says there won't be another chance to open the vault in "THIS" lifetime, rather than "OUR" lifetime. Someone should pay attention on their next character and find out! =D --Aelwrath45 06:12, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Then she say "Faster! You wont be able to open the vault in your lifetime!" Gonna record it next time I go kill it.--Rubyus 05:06, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

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Aelwrath you are correct. The Angel sends two transmissions, the first saying "in this lifetime" the second saying "in your lifetime". Any player can replay these transmissions by accessing their ECHO logs from inside the game. The first transmission is called "No Time Left" the second is called "Last Few Grains of Sand". --Braleth 17:12, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

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Trying to squeeze this in somewhere: After you reactivate the ECHO network, the Angel says "I can see everything again!", leading us to further believe she is an AI existing within the ECHO network. 18:37, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

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One can also speculate that, the Hyperion Corporation, was founded by a remnant of the Eridians. This is Highly unlikely but it is a possibility as the Guardian Angel could be in the Hyperion Satillite shown in the final scene. The Guardian Angel could be an AI in said Satillite that was put in place to guide someone to the vault when it was time to open it.Lupus

Angel & Clappy
I don't think that she hacked the CL4P-TP. Why would have she? -Supakillaii 20:46, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Hard to say. To be honest, the video doesn't even strongly imply that she did, but it is still intelligent speculation, and is clearly clarified as such. --Aelwrath45 17:53, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Would you kindly?
Although it's most certainly a bioshock reference, should we really be putting a spoiler for a completely different game here? --DragonJTSLeave me a message 05:26, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to have to go with Dragon on this one. CinnamonPheonix 14:23, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe it is... some games are going to have the same dialog as another, simple as that. You shouldn't just assume something is a reference becuase its says the same thing in another game, theres no reason or fact to support that this is a reference to Bioshock. Until you can show me proof that its a direct reference, its just a coincidence. 69.1.119.34 04:07, April 7, 2010 (UTC)JeffL

I'm not going to lie, but the fact that it is featured as a prominent element of the story of another game is reason enough. How about all the other references contained within red weapon text and various visual elements? The fact that so many more references exist throughout the games clearly shows that they had some kind of intention within the line leaning more towards a reference. I think it's more than coincidence, if you ask me. 66.182.195.230 01:21, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Nice Catch
Kudos to whoever caught the 4N631 serial number as a 1337speak. TheParagon 23:54, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Origins
Could it be possible that the Guardian Angel is an Eridian AI? Just saying. Nelo Angelo 97 19:09, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I'm gonna have to agree with the speculation that she is an Eridian AI. Seems entirely reasonable.Matthew21210 22:00, November 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think an important bit of information is knowing when the satellite was put into orbit, and for how long. We also need to know if there's a link between the Dahl and Hyperion corporations. Don't forget that Patricia Tannis is/was a Dahl employee, while the satellite is Hyperion. A lot of people are claiming there's a link between Tannis and the Angel, but that may not be true due to this separation.


 * It is doubtful that the current Angel is of Eridian design. If she was, then the Eridian wouldn't fight you, and she would warn you about the Eridian. Instead, it's a massive clusterfooey at the end that you have to fight through.


 * She didn't nescessary need to warn you about everything you will face (she even keeps a mistery in the air about the Rakk Hive). > M1thr4nd1r <


 * I feel that the Angel is a Hyperion AI. No corruption, no special sentience. It can clearly piggyback onto the ECHO network and gain vast amounts of information that way, but there is things she knows that no one else does. She knows what's in the Vault, but Tannis doesn't, so all her info didn't come from spying on Tannis. This means that her information either came from deciphering Eridian writing, or there is someone else who knows the real truth, and this leads up to my next speculation.


 * Another question comes up... does Hyperion know what's in the vault? I am leaning towards "Yes," and here is my reasoning:


 * If Hyperion didn't knew that the Vault was real, and that what was inside was dangerous, they'd probably end up shutting down the satellite. They have no presence on Pandora, other than selling guns, so chances are they wouldn't bother with putting anything/anyone on a planet that has nothing useful on it. (Or perhaps they're keeping it up as an eye-in-the-sky juuuuust in case.)


 * On the other hand, let's say Hyperion did know that the Vault was real, and that the Destroyer was inside. We know that the corporations aren't very high in morals. This is all speculation, but I believe they wouldn't reveal this information to the universe so that the other companies continue to waste time and resources in opening the Pandora vault. And each time, all of the interlopers end up being killed off by bandits, Eridian, treasure hunters, and the Destroyer. The Destroyer is eventually fought off, the vault closes, and the secret remains a secret. More people show up to hunt for the vault to get a reward that doesn't exist, and Hyperion continues to search for other Vaults that may ACTUALLY have technology inside. (They keep the satellite up to ensure that the Destroyer is actually fought off each time to keep the secret, too).


 * It's a bloody cycle at the expense of human life, just to squander rival corporation resources on a useless planet. ~ ~ ~ ~ Kleptomaniac666


 * Well, even if Hyperion has no presence on Pandora and shut down the satellite, most theories point at the Angel being an AI of some origin. When satellites are decommissioned, they aren't deorbited. Suppose the Angel just got it back online and assumed control. Hyperion has no presence on Pandora that we know of, so they probably wouldn't notice that their satellite got hijacked and if they did, they probably wouldn't care. Just because they satellite says Hyperion doesn't necessarily imply that they have anything to do with what it's doing now, especially given the general exodus of corporate interest. Greatak 07:43, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * You've forgotten that the satellite says 4N631 on it, which means that Hyperion put that there. Then again, it could be that the Guardian Angel has derived its name from the 13375P33K on the satellite...118.210.99.118 10:13, April 11, 2010 (UTC)Anon.

Not to mention perpetuating the fighting of the Destroyer and seeking after the vault would increase the sales of guns. ZoeyMithra 07:59, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think y'all are being too generous about GA's motives.
It was mentioned in the game that Atlas got a big technological windfall from a discovery of alien equipment. The way that the closing scene shows the guardian angel as a pale reflection in a satellite with "HYPERION" blazoned across the side suggests that the whole thing was an act of corporate sabotage-- that Hyperion was just trying to confound Atla's discovery. All the talk about heroes and angels could be window dressing to get the player character to cooperate.

Where the Destroyer fits in is open for discussion, but the game is pretty cynical about the in-game corporations. I don't think the game meant to pose one corporation as the salvation of humanity.

Also, the closing track: "There ain't no heaven" suggests something more cynical is going on, as well.
 * I definitely agree, she may just be egging you on to find the Vault and open it so that Hyperion can get to the Vault first.76.112.66.245
 * I respectfully disagree. The GA seems to have knowledge of the Destroyer prior to the vault being opened and therefore if the GA were part of corporate sabotage, then there must exist a motive for Hyperion to kill the Destroyer. Also, since the vault immediately closed after killing the Destroyer, it is clear the nobody received alien technology from the vault's contents -- not even Atlas. In fact, I don't think Atlas is ever formally confirmed as having received alien tech from a Vault... as I recall, it was all speculation. As for the ending theme, I think it's a reference to the fact that all the hopes and dreams of the vault's contents -- heaven as it were -- turns out to be nothing but a fabrication. In the end, I feel the most logical explanation is that the GA was created by the Eridians for the sole purpose of ensuring that the Destroyer remains imprisoned.


 * Just as a quick note, i think the "There ain't no heaven" track has to do with the guardian reference to angels and archangels, with the vault being heaven, but the vault is full of a big monster instead of treasure. Meaning that "heaven" was full of nothing glorious like weapons, women, etc. So "There ain't no heaven" means what seemed amazing was actually worthless68.12.43.207 03:05, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Static
Everytime she (it?) contacts the player you receive the image her in staticky and flickery picture. This could support the fact that she is being transmitted through somekind of a network (like ECHO) or the satellite.


 * Well, as has been suggested before, she could be using a more crude method of interface. And that the image isn't necessarily her, but just the brain trying to put a source to the voice. The brain making stuff up of that magnitude probably isn't going to be crystal clear. Greatak 07:46, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Satelite
Anyone other than me think the satelite looks a little like a CL4P-TP or Claptrap? Casperk 18:55, December 13, 2009 (UTC) It did look like one from the front.-Razuk

if no echo, then how?
It could be surmised that angel can use the satellite to directly communicate with the player; however, because the satellite is not in geosynchronous orbit angel cannot always see you by those means. This means that the echo system would be a secondary means of communication, the deactivation of which would give angle less detailed info and periodic loss of communication.

Hyperion could not do it. Pandora has been a known world for a few years. Here is my new theory, based on what I read in Tannis's cell near the bottom, use a scoped weapon. Tannis is clearly writing to the guardian angel. The writing states that the "guardian angel" lives in a circular existence. Here is my theory. The angel is actually an AI or person made AI (possibly Tannis or a surdendand/or daughter of hers), from a future in which the destroyer escapes. the angel, in order to make sure that the destroyer does not escape, continually sends it's self back in time untill a suitable timeline is created, thus creating a "circular existence"


 * Just a thought, but living a "circular existence" could be a very simple reference to the satellite's orbit, presuming of course that the Angel 'resides' within it or at least that Tannis believes she does. Zaya&#39;Kol nar Sienna 07:15, March 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed indent. -- WarBlade 08:12, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Personally i feel the "cicular existance is a simple reference to the 2nd and 3rd playthroughs that allow you to collect the key, read her message and kill the destroyer over an over again.simple refrence to consecutive plays of the game_johnbain

There is evidence in game that would suggest GA is a really clever Eridian hack
One theory I haven't seen discussed is the idea that the Guardian Angel is a piece of software embedded in the runes all over Eridian ruins. During the second journal collection mission in Rust Commons West, Tannis talks about how she has a translation AI that manages to successfully decode Eridian writing. During the decoding process, it also causes physical damage to the computing equipment upon which it runs. This could be just saying that the translation process is really intensive, or it might be that the Eridian writings contain the encoding for an artificial intelligence which hijacks Tannis' equipment. This event occurs a long time before the player's character arrives on Pandora, so in the intervening time this AI agent could hijack Tannis' equipment, communicate with her, and eventually get itself onto a Hyperion satellite to do its job of keeping The Destroyer locked up in the Vault using the player as a proxy.--Swanage 18:20, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

If it were an eridian A.I. Maybe it would communicate with a player in a way that spared more eridians. seeing as we tend too pick these off first rather than lance soldiers.

If she only exist after Tannis, she couldn't guide anyone (before you) to stop the Destroyer from leaving the vault (taking in consideration the 200 years cycle), therefore Pandora should be destroyed already. - M1thr4nd1r 22:01, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

The Guardians are never reffered to as Eridians, so they might as well be expendable from the GA's point of view. One that cannot best the guardians might as well not come by. Plus, Angel had to keep deceiving the player, making him go for the vault... -- Zethariel

About some of the Tannis - GA 'evidence'
There're a few lines in this section which don't make sense. I didn't wanna just delete them before seeing what other people thought.

"Tannis called the ECHO recorder "two timing" suggesting there was another being in her encampment, even though she was the only living human there. "

There's nothing strange about this. Tannis says herself she was going a bit crazy and developed a relationship with the recorder. She develops a psychosis from being all alone in her campsite for so long. This also explains the following:

"The paper you get from her is written in the form of an argument with an "invisible cellmate". "

She just has a sort of split-personality disorder from being alone. Not evidence that these behaviours are a link to the GA.

Although your theories are logical, especially for real world, its also possible that the other theories suggested are true. Such as the argument on the paper could be her means of communicating to the GA since it may be impossible to talk to the GA but she can still see and talk to you, thus making writing on a paper the only way to communicate. Playn 07:09, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I also have a statement about this, the garbled mission is from Tannis, right. Well if it is that messed up then how do we know that she can recieve a message of better caliber from GA. It would be so garbled she wouldn't understand it.

"Personal Contact"
It is possible that she had transmitted her message to everyone on the bus, and they all heard and saw it. However, only the character the player chose actually decided to respond to it. The Flying Fenrakk 00:16, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Since the intro's and enviroment (for general madroxx) always shows more than one vault hunter (probably the four of them) I find that theory hard to believe :P M1thr4nd1r 22:45, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Tannis did not create the Guardian Angel.
It's simple, really. In the opening cutscene on the bus, Marcus tells about how his father always talked of the Vault, leading to the Vault Hunters embarking on Pandora. However, before he gets to the Vault Hunters at all, he mentions the Guardian Angel. Thus, she was around, in all likelihood, before Tannis. Let me know if I missed something, but this seems pretty cut and dry to me. -- Claptrap 23:03, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * With respect, I've heard of and talked about guardian angels in my life before I played this game; it's a pretty popular concept. Just because an enigmatic HUD-lady adopts the moniker doesn't really provide any good evidence that they've always been the same thing. After all, he doesn't mention getting ECHOnet messages from her.
 * the angel may in fact be a plot devise used by markus, remember you are playing the story he tells to the player of the game_johnbain
 * in my opinion, this needs to be brought up more often. since the game itself is just a narrative told to a child, it's highly possible parts of it were completely made up. in fact, looking at it from this perspective, there's a good possibility there was no "guardian angel" and the vault hunters happened to arrive in the nick of time. also, marcus might have wanted a more entertaining climax to the story and messed with the pacing and events a bit. a game about a story about fictional events, that's kind of meta right there. Texhn 22:24, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

It seems most likely that Hyperion created the Guardian Angel
I just inferred this from looking at the satellite in the end cutscene. As someone else pointed out, the satellite says "4N631", or "Angel" in 1337 speak. While that could potentially be argued as a simple coincidence on Hyperion's part, one must also remember the Vault symbol is on the satellite as well, with "wings" on it. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the Angel was an Eridian or something that "took over" the satellite - she was probably created by Hyperion. -- Claptrap 18:14, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Unless the similarity in the symbols on the Vault and the satellite are just Hyperion branding. We never do see the actual interior of the vault and so can't have any conclusive evidence that the symbols on the Vault are Eridian in origin. Maybe Hyperion was just trying to lay claim to the find in a time when there was more direct corporate interest on Pandora. The satellite could have been assigned to the same project and branded similarly. It's not the Hyperion logo, but maybe they sub-contracted the affair or used a subsidiary for it. Greatak 07:55, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Vault isnt actualy a "vault" you know. The Vault doesnt have an "interrior". The Vault is a form of "white space" or "pocket dimension" adjacent to the current time-space your in, and the actual Vault "door" acts as a triger between the time-space you PC is in and the one the Destroyer is in. Kinda like Hell Boy and the Chaos Gods' summing at the start of the movie.
 * The Vault isnt actualy a "vault" you know. The Vault doesnt have an "interrior". The Vault is a form of "white space" or "pocket dimension" adjacent to the current time-space your in, and the actual Vault "door" acts as a triger between the time-space you PC is in and the one the Destroyer is in. Kinda like Hell Boy and the Chaos Gods' summing at the start of the movie.

Hyperion subterfuge and motivation.
Think on this; Hyperion makes the Clap traps, and recall the bill board logo on the Hyperion Billboards. "We make your life. Period." With a picture of the Claptrap/sattilite lense. They are referencing the New-U/echo network. Seems like Hyperion as their fingers in a lot of pies, and seems to have *all* the tech that is worth anything.

I think the GA being is/was made by Hyperion to protect/defend/keep the vault closed. I think Hyperion originally found the opened the vault/gate, and got the tech for the Echo, New-U and all that other super stuff out of it. Then to protect their find they used the tech to bio/god-engineer the Destroyer as a guard, put it in the vault, and closed it up again. They know it opens every 200 years, so they put a lesser god into it so people will have to fight it close the vault up again. Meanwhile they cast themselves as good guys the whole time. By the way, the 200 years thing sounds like a planet alignment kind of thing. What was the Pandora orbit? Maybe the interplanetary gate only works when certain stuff is lined up....

You never actually get to see the vault. Why would Eridians have a god in a vault/gate? They hardly seem that clumsy. I think the vault contains Eridian stuff or a gateway to Eridian planets etc. They obviously have teleport/new U kind of tech. I think the vault/gate used to be a big path to an Eridian Planet/plane, and Hyperion found it, pillaged it, and setup a false quest to steer off would be vault/tech hunters and corporations. What better way to protect their tech advantage than to guard the source with some big horrible monster, and then go through a little song and dance about how they will help to protect against it. The Hyperion AI (the GA) sleezes you into fighting the destroyer. The whole thing is a con job by Hyperion to cover their tech tracks.

Recall that the GA takes a certain satisfaction that Commander Steele and the Lance are going to get a "big" surprise when they open the Vault. The GA knows that Steele isn't up to the task of defeating the Destroyer, and is looking to have the rival company force be defeated. If the GA did have pure motivation, it would go after the most powerful company and let them know what was in the vault and how to defeat it. Instead there is an elaborate shell game going on which includes setting up Steele and the Lance to get smoked by the Destroyer, and perpetuating a myth about a god in the vault. Who better to spread a big lie than some guilible vault hunters that are easily lead around by money and guns.

also the GA could have convinced tannis to set you after baron flint so steel could steal the vault key pieces and the because of that getting steel killed damaging atlas.

You might ask; Why doesn't Hyperion just guard the vault/gate with a planetary force? Because a planetary for could be taken, or tricked. Whereas having a big fake lie in place with a giant monster as lie bait is much more convincing. If Hyperion had a force on Pandora, people would know to go there. ZoeyMithra 08:34, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

there is also the possibility that Hyperion dicovered the vault and the tech and a dormant gaurd(the destroyer)left by the eridians or some other force of unknown origin, but upon entering the vault or some other stimulus the destroyer woke up and(only speculation)hyperion may have set up some kind of device that made it only open every few hundred years before leaving(after seeing the destroyer i dont blame them!)and letting another company take the world.possibly the satalite was made by hyperion to regulate the 200 years opening thing_johnbain

My thoughts...
the guardian angel is perhaps the only/first friendly face you will meet during the game. But there is another one who is always loyal to you. always communicating. Of a robotic origin. Could it be possible that the guardian angel is really the first claptrap? She tells you to listen to everything it says, It could only communicate with you using ECHOnet and like i said, they are pretty much the only 2 friendly faces. Those who will argue about the bus at the start of the game, any character on that bus (albeit marcus kincaid) is playable, it is very reasonable to believe she wanted you to think YOU were the only one being spoken to. Also the player will npt hear from angel after cl4p tp goes haywire (into an intergalactic bounty hunter). I would like to hear what you think Grand theft automobile 14:45, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

more thoughts...
If my previous post proves insuccesful, i thought about this. Could the guardian angel be an eridian failsafe, put in to stop the destroyer getting out, but since the destroyer somehow weakened the failsafe (after the player got off the bus) it needed the ECHOnet, to be able to communicate with the player again. If this is true, could the player be possibly the last descendant of the eridian race? Seems plausible to me, but i wanna know what you think. Grand theft automobile 14:56, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

i agree with you that its possible<but what about the four characters? are they all descendants?i play co op and this makes this theory less possible, but of course you only play 1 character by yourself wich means your theory only applies to the character you play and it changes as you play different characters.the game works better with one player so maybe thats how youy are supposed to play it, allancestors leading to your character._johnbain

check this out!
here is a interview with the Guardian Angel from Borderlands!

http://87bazillion.com/2010/01/24/87bazillion-interviews-the-guardian-angel/

== The GA and seeing you.... ==

Don't know if this was mentioned or not but.. has any one thought about there being a GPS system in the ECHO device. I know she seen you before you got off the bus, but there could have been a device on the bus it's self.

just a thought

Scott. March 1st 2010

couldn't the GA have axcess to multiple other satelites and thus be able to see everywhere on the planet throw th echo network

couldn't the GA have axcess to multiple other satelites and thus be able to see everywhere on the planet throw th echo network

The Angel, Hyperion, CL4P-TP and the Vault. A conspiracy theory. ;)
I've been looking a lot at all evidence here, as well as in game stuff and conclusions that could/would/might be drawn from all of this. In conclusion, I have a few theories to throw out to see if they stick to any saluting flagpoles, or whatever the bloody metaphor is.

Bear with me here a mo. So the Eridian race are an ancient and incredibly advanced race which now are extinct, only leaving relics and guardians behind. They discovered, or created, the Destroyer/ the Vault with the Destroyer in and made a system whereby it would be locked away, though it could be opened every 200 years. They then presumably scattered the Vault Key pieces, which judging by the supposed age of the Eridian race, and the length of time between each opening of the Vault, it suggests that the Vault could have been opened a number of times after the Eridians had died out, but before the events of the game. The fact that all the pieces are found in the possession of people who aren't exactly your average archaeologist, suggests that they may have been discovered from their hiding places before, then not as well hidden, found and stolen. Add this to the lack of anyone saying how old these corporations are, combined with what has already been discussed leads me to this conclusion:

The Hyperion corporation found and opened the Vault before, found the Destroyer, defeated it, closed the Vault up and tried to hush the business up. Not entirely successfully, since rumours are rumours, and they do fly, and morph to what people would like to be true. To ensure they'd have some form of defence, the 4N631 satellites were put in place with the Guardian Angel AI programme. Since it is Hyperion which has the NewU stations, planetary teleporting network and the vehicle teleporters spawning vehicles, it's quite clear that of all the corporations, Hyperion is by far the most advanced, and transmitting messages into the minds of people would be no trouble, when moving their entire person from one location to another, or recreating them from nothing, is relatively easy. So having this incredibly advanced technology, they decide, for whatever reason, that they'll use a guiding Guardian Angel to keep the vault safe, even from the might of Atlas Corporation, showing they have as it were secretive power, preferring rogue agents to outright armies and conflict.

Also, the CL4P-TP's, or at least some of them, do have the same markings as the Hyperion Angel satellite, and the eyepiece is very simmilar to the eyepiece thing on the satellite. The two being Hyperion AI technologies would neatly equate, especially with the "Oh, that poor little robot!" "Would you be so kind" and all. She cares for them. She knows of them quite clearly, so maybe they are also Hyperion. If the ninja assassin business is to be taken seriously, maybe they are a last measure. Admittedly, the Angel could get communication to you if not from the satelite directly, bounced from one claptrap to another, so that her messages get through to you no matter what, whereas she is able to "see" you through the ECHO device, provided free of charge from the Dahl corporation, and given to you by a Claptrap. If the ECHOnet goes down and she's not in range, she could use her own methods of communicating to reach your rough location last "seen" before the shutdown, but afterwards she'd be transmitting blind, so wouldn't bother.

These are of course all merely ideas that have occured, and they may be entirely wrong. Please feel free to discuss to your heart's content. I just hope there's a sequel taking us to a different world in the Galaxy this is set in.

i agree wholeheartedly with your ideas and a sequel would be nice, maybe with another vault that actualy has guns and women and wealth in... but that wouldent be as fun!_johnbain

Guys.......
Think about it, its the future there. we couldn't even know what there technology could do,


 * Radar: this is my personal opinion based solely on pessimism. It's coincidence, I think the game developers made this game with the intent of selling it, the fact that a monster is in the vault is just a way of making the ending "climatic" and the fact that the satellite was Hyperion is just another thing the Hyperion owns on Pandora, since they already own the New-U station as well. I don't think that the game developers made this Huge Interesting Sub-Plot just to leave it totally unexplained and then have tons of people on a forum discuss what it could possibly be. Don't get me wrong I have a few personal theories of my own should there be such a thing as a 'correct answer', but that does not sell games, which is their goal. I can even support this by adding in the third DLC, The Secret Armory, the story goes a little wacky stating that Scooter is the son of Mad Moxxi, and that he had killed lucky for screwing up his mom's girl parts. That whole sub-plot is sort of out of wack because you can meet lucky at his station after you hear him say he's dead.
 * The fact that Lucky is alive is because the DLC can't change the original. (For example, T.K. Baha can be dead and/or alive in his house outside Fyrestone while being a zombie on the zombie island. This is (probably) so that people with the DLC(s) will be compatible with players without them. Not sure if they are though, since I haven't tried it in multiplayer with people without the DLCs. Anyways, the DLCs are modules, so they don't change things outside their scope. 82.182.171.126 09:12, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

iwould like to add that there may be a huge epic storyline that is yet to be discovered in sequels of the game and this is just a taster of the whole picture, but...it may just be coincidence and i have wasted many neurons on fruitless thoughts and pointless ideas when i could in fact be leveling my roland character right now,i hope its not coincidence :(_johnbain

My two cents.
By looking through various sources we can find out that a group of scientists had discovered the vault nearly 200 years ago. This may imply that they were killed by the 'defensive force' The Destroyer. However, it's my speculation that the scientists were from the Hyperion Corporation, and that they were able to not only find the vault as the rumor says, but also figure out what was in it. It would then be the Guardians that whiped out the scientists leaving them only enough time to send the final message of their discovery (if it had been The Destroyer, then it would either still be on the loose -- destroying the universe, or would have been defeated and no longer exist for you to kill later). This theory would mean that the Hyperion Corporation would have the most candid information on The Vault and after realizing it doesn't hold what they had hoped, would leave the planet (other corporations seeing this may have picked up on the fact that Hyperion knew there was nothing there and pulled out as well). Hyperion would have left at least some safety measure behind though, as the Universe would be destroyed if The Destroyer got out, which would obviously mean a bad quarter for Hyperion. The Guardian Angel could very well be the Hyperion safeguard to make sure that if The Vault were to be opened, that it would be done in the presence of someone capable of vanquishing The Destroyer. It's hinted that the Angel has been around longer than Tannis as Marcus mentions his father telling the story often. But it's also known that the legend of The Vault on Pandora only began 200 years ago when the scientists were killed, sending one last transmition of its existance but not of its location. Ultimately it makes the most (not absolute) sense for the Angel to be a construct of the Hyperion Corporation.

Note:you may not actualy kill the destroyer only weaken it enough that it cant support itself outside the vault meaning that it could have been defeated before you defeat it_johnbain

Notes from Main page
''Speculation archived from main page. Speculation should really be here in Talk or on another 'speculation about GA's origins' page, not on GA's main page. 80.3.148.240 16:20, March 23, 2010 (UTC)''

''-Question: Why would the above be true? How could she see/talk to you before you are handed the ECHO from Clap Trap? ''

-Response: ''The above is true because it happens in the game after you choose a class. Before you get off the bus the Guardian Angel tells you "You wont understand why but I want you to do everything he (Claptrap) says. (which is strange because none of the players should be able to see or hear the "Angel" without use of an communicator etc as when Atlas shut down all the Echo communications she claimed she couldn't "see" the player anymore and presumably lost contact. This means that perhaps the "Angel" can affect organic matter, transmit light and/or sound energy very precisely, or perhaps the player already had some sort of device implanted into their body beforehand they were "Chosen" after all.)''

-Note: The Angel may be able to communicate through the Echo recorders at a distance. At the time of the initial communication The Player(s) are within 30 ft. of one.

This could be argued as false however, considering that the angel tells the character in question to not let on that he is being talked to, implying that only he/she could hear her, so without an Echo recorder, she must of made some other kind of connection, psychic etc.

--Response-to-the-Responses: If the ECHOs are her eyes, she would be able to see you on the bus if the driver had a bus-mounted ECHO device. This seems plausible, similar to a radio used for communication on a modern bus or truck. I'll have to keep an eye out for it on my next playthrough. This still doesn't explain how she is able to communicate with you personally. The fact that she uses a distinct, moving, visual feed suggests that this is not occurring over the ECHO network.

One theory is a combination of both direct and echo based communication. It could be surmised that angel can use the satellite to directly communicate with the player; however, because the satellite is not in geosynchronous orbit angel cannot always see you by those means. This means that the echo system would be a secondary means of communication, the deactivation of which would give angle less detailed info and periodic loss of communication.

--Response-to-General-Theory: The Guardian Angel never states that she would be unable to communicate with you without the ECHO network, just that she would be unable to "see" you. This leads me to speculate that while she uses the spy satellite (which assumably operates on the ECHO network) to maintain visual contact on you, her ability to communicate is independent of the network (remember that whenever she speaks with you, it is done through a unique interface, not the standard ECHO message dialogue box). This ties into the above theory that the Guardian Angel is an Eridian and has access to abilities beyond human understanding.

--Speculation: ''It could be that The Hyperion company could be a remnant of the Eridian civilization. And that they programmed that Satellite to be a watch dog for the vault and when it can be opened guide someone there to destroy the destroyer. This would explain why the Angel can talk to you before getting the ECHO device, and i speculate from that it managed to hack into the ECHO network and used it to monitor you(the player) using it. ''

--Speculation addendum: Satellites can use microwaves to transmit energy amongst themselves, using this on humans can cause the brain to swell rapidly. By pulsating a beam of microwave radiation on the brain it can be interpreted as a human voice. Because this is unnatural it would be very suspicious to witness someone visually responding to voices in their head. As for the image of a woman, this could be how the human brain copes with the voice to buffer their sanity.

Also it should be noted that Tannis used to work for the Dahl corporation. The satellite in the final cutscene belongs to Hyperion.

--Speculation: The only person it logically could be would be marcus kincaid.
 * 1) When she laughs as if the player found the 2nd key without her help, marcus was helping them all along.
 * 2) He acts as if he is completely oblivious to whats in the vault, but he sold you the weapons to beat the destroyer.
 * 3) He was driving the starting bus so he could have communicated.
 * 4) He has shown skilled hacking skills (such as when he hacked the claptrap in the zombie island of Dr Ned
 * 5) The game is a story told by marcus, he could have put the angel in to keep people wondering and listen to the next story (as many writers do)

--Speculation; Fuel the fire: The Guardian Angel may be using data gathered by whatching vault hunter activity in order to gain a tactical database for an easily deployable multi-purpose weapon system/platform. Like CL4P-TP Ninja assasins. (assuming the scene was more then a joke) Given the Angel's ability to communicate without the ECHO network, but uses the (presumably worldwide) network to see everything, the AI probably 'chooses' every vault hunter to assist in the hunt. Encourged to walk right into the heaviest confrontations, the vault hunters give a wide range of tactical solutions for the eventual 'ninja' Clap trap program. Pandora might just be one big training ground. Add this to the speculation that Marcus might be behind it all, then he would become the greatest weapons dealer in whatever passes for the known universe with highly trained, heavly armed, easily produced CL4P-TP Assasins.

--Speculation: What if the satellite shown is just one of many and is just a node in a cluster? It could hear and see tons of stuff with Eridian tech inside, but uses the ECHO network to keep track of the humans down below.

--Speculation: At one point in the game where you have to repair the first claptrap she says "would you kindly" at the start of the sentence .This is a mind controlling word to the protaganist of Bioshock, wether this is an easter egg (intentional or not), just a simple sentence or maybe she really is controlling the player.

--Response to Bioshock speculation; Although a possibillity, it just doesnt fit with the rest of the story. She never says "would you kindly" throughout the rest of the story. Also, there is a part in the story where you find the second peice of the key without her help; She even scolds you for it! (Im referring to just after you beat Krom and take his peice).

-Response to Bioshock response: She doesn't scold you, she says something along the lines of 'You found another piece without my help.. or did you? Remember I am always watching you.'

-Note: There isn't anything in the game (that I can recall) that would suggest that Angel uses ECHO network for communication at all. When the ECHO is shut down, the Angel states 'we're flying blind', and when it's brought back online she states something like 'I can see (again?)' and also 'I don't know what you did'. This all would seem to indicate that Angel communicates to player through means independent of ECHO network, and that ECHO network (or components linked to it) are Angel's only means of observing the events on the surface. While there isn't anything in game that would suggest the (direct) communication was two-way, it would make sense to assume (from the level of detail of information that Angel can acquire) that she can observe the player closely enough that she would be able to 'hear' - wether through audio, reading lips, tapping ECHO network, or whatever other means. On that note, the article's description seems wrong. 'The Angel watches over the player throughout the game via the ECHO-net once the player recieves their communicator and heads-up-display' is wrong because clearly the Angel observes AND communicates to player already inside the bus prior to this event. Also 'Unrelated to the ECHO-net is the Angel's means of viewing the player' is wrong, because shutting down the ECHO blinds the Angel (while not hindering her ability to transmit messages to player) as per her own statement.

i read all of the stuff on this page and there are so many solid story's i want to believe them all. but there are so many holes in each one. For example if the Hyprion did BioEngineer the destroyer to protect their find. what destroyed the eridians. I mean your taking out the reason the eridian race died in the first place. All i can say is they should make a Borderlands 2 that allows hou to enter the vault and fight the destroyers FULL body. like the battle in the end of DevilMayCry when Dante fights moundus. and give you the whole history of the eridians and their conection to Hyperion and the GA. so i can stop being confused about who to belive and this headache can go away.

on with the show
for those who have not noticed, Hyperion corp. pretty much keep Pandora running through the new-u stations, catch-a-rides etc. but what could be their possible motives for maintaining the infrastructure of a planet that was originally owned by Dahl?

let's go back a bit, now the Eridians were a super advanced race of sorts, living life as normal, one day they come across 'the destroyer' this thing assumably pushes them to the edge of extinction before they manage to seal it in the 'vault' and they set up a simple once every 200 years shot at killing it, so they can eventually destroy the abomination.

so now we have Hyperion, maintaining a rival corporations planet. why? it seems logical that they know something about it, but from where? now every one assumes they got it from the original vault hunters 200 years ago, but if all these people found was 'the destroyer' where do they get their tech and knowledge? i propose Hyperion actually are the descendants of the Eridians, having fled Pandora for some reason, losing the knowledge if it's actual location, but remembering it's existence.

also,they know of the destroyers existence, but they keep it hush-hush for the most part to prevent panic, but they did inform Dahl, leading to them pulling out from a rather successful mining project and saving their own employees.

from their i'm sure you can flesh it out, but it seems logical, no?

GA and the eridian
ok 2 things i want to bring up, firstly after reading all the ideas about the ga being eridian, they all track well, but there all questioned by the point tha the guardians attack you, so my second point is gona be 2 actualy, first there is no reference saying that the guardians are infact eridian, they may have been created by them or not and they seem to be very vulnerable to eridian weapons which furthur implies there not eridian, secondly if they are eridian and the ga is aswell, if there drones that are pre-programed with a set task i.e. guard the vault then there is a good chance thega would have no external controll over them as it would make them naff guardians if you could overide them, the fact that they all attack you in a similar set way would say that there programed to take set tactical action against a percieved threat. Any way thats my 2 cents if any one wants to chat about this i can be found on x box live under officialkalinor.

Has Anyone Asked the Question, Why?
Maybe someone has touched on this before me, but since I beat the game the first time, it's always bothered me... why? Why, if GA knows whats in the Vault for any reason, if shes Eridian or an AI in cahoots with Tannis, or for any other background, would she WANT you to open the Vault? The Eridians were perfectly content locking the Destroyer up in an alternate dimention. And what would be the case if the main character COULDN'T kill the destroyer? You've then unleashed a billion year-old immortal world-eating super-squid... Instead of leaving it locked up, she tricks the main character into opening it... why? What's her motivation? Blastoderm 23:47, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think GA wanted YOU to be there when the vault was opened. Tannis and Steele were already on their way to get it open; Tannis remarks "I hope you're more useful than the last one I hired". The vault would have been opened either way, GA was helping YOU open it because she/it believed you were the one who could stop the Destroyer. Cyanide K 14:57, May 22, 2010 (UTC)