User talk:Happypal/Archive 1

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Borderlands Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Forum:Character Builds - not suitable for a wiki page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- LobStoR (Talk) 09:00, January 5, 2010

i am assuming you are trying to help un-jumble the build templates. so i will unblock you. but _please_ do not summarize your edits with "oops" when they involve templates which other templates are dependent upon. ty. 10:47, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

i tried repairing icons also and though that appears to work it breaks the link to the indicated skill. 10:58, February 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll try to be more explicit about my edit summaries, your worries were legitimate, and you were right to block me whilst checking my edits. I also know when to sand box (this was an easy fix, I just typoed it). You should know I am also the Bureaucrat over at w:c:supcom, w:c:supcom2 and w:c:demigod. I understand and appreciate the full complexity and dangers of editing templates. The current problem is with a parser expression that is supposed to remove spaces, but broke with the last mediawiki upgrade, and its not an easy fix (the current "fix" fixed the icons, but broke the image's links to the associated skill page...)
 * Also, the tooltips are broken, and I'm not sure why. I'd also like to try to fix this.
 * Finally, could you also unblock my IP? block #858 at Special:BlockList
 * Thanks. Happypal 11:04, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

yes, i forgot the autoblock (damn its early). i figured you for a non-idiot and you are not a new comer. i have had it up to my ears tonite with this mess. break it all you like just set it back if you cannot fix it. thank you again and good luck. 11:19, February 1, 2011 (UTC) ill follow your progress after sleep, food, sleep & coffee

Congrats!
On getting UotM. Veggienater 00:13, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

as above. felicitaciones. 01:13, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

May I add to that? =D 17:16, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

navs
the nav boxes _have been_ put @ the bottom of pages but thats not written in (manual of) style. 12:11, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

weekly poll
this week's poll ends soon. would you care to choose the next poll topic? you may view the poll archive to see past poll topics, and the poll talk page to see user's ideas for future poll topics. or, of course, pick any topic that amuses you. please respond as soon as possible before 11:59pm cst, (gmt -6) 2/5/2011. thanks.

01:37, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind a "Most OP weapon".

Happypal 09:26, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Firehawk
 * Hellfire
 * Volcano
 * Orion
 * Bessie
 * Defiler
 * Aries

4chan
former editor @ large AtlasSoldier admits to combining street drugs and his ADHD Rx and subsequently rage-editing this wiki until he passed out/came down/lost interest. he is a text book example of what needs to be contained in _any_ community - hate for hate's sake. the boy would respond to "no you are wrong" with "i'm going to burn your garage". saddest of most he has some skill with .css and some style. however comma he is too unstable to participate in a community of agreements which he ignores. 14:02, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

draco
accessory is not a modified acc_5. see Gun Component Charts for examples. acc_4 is simple cylinder. 18:53, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * im not happy with your use of the word "modified" either as that is misleading to the common user. that is only my assessment however and i leave it to you and your (edit:our) community to decide.
 * You are correct. I thought it would be more interesting to compare it to the incendiary one, but wrong is wrong. Ended up comparing it with both. Happypal 07:14, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

I'll be using "based on" (or "based off"?) in the future rather than "modified". What do you mean by "your community"? Happypal 14:15, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * poorly chosen word. was meant to be a derisive and dividing point of delineation between the new kids on the block who want to publish everything up front and the old guard who know better than to publish (read: push) what is not visible in the game.  now that ive had some sleep i will say "our" as it in fact is, and i apologiz/se for being a putz.   16FEB11

Rollback
Can you extrapolate on rollback/undo? I understand that there are people "on the job" almost constantly in this wiki. I usually leave it up to them, but there are times when you double check on a edit and WOW... content wipe. These are things that people have worked hard for and It's unbearable to see them just X'ed out. These seem to coincide with "apparent" inactivity of the guardians of this wiki. As if jerks have nothing else to do than watch and wait. Anyway, any information that you can give about rolling back this despicable activity would be appreciated :) 13:45, February 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * As has already been mentioned to you, rollback and undo are not the same thing, so for the sake of not confusing yourself and others please refrain from referring to them as if they are.
 * Rollback is an emergency privilege granted to trusted and long-serving members of the wiki (obviously admins as well) to handle extensive vandalism or raids. But anyone can undo an edit from the page history, as long as: the edit was made to the page in general, and is the most recent edit to the page; or the edit was made to a specific subsection, and is the most recent edit to the subsection - not necessarily to the page. 14:16, February 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just open up the page history, and voila.


 * Or just do the poor man's undo by editing a past revision of the page and saving it. Happypal 14:18, February 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Good point: poor man's undo is useful for multiple destructive edits to the same page, just editsave the last clean revision. Description of rollback is here if you'd care to enter the term in the search box and hit Enter; current rollback users are here. 14:29, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Hey! I'm on that list! I AM special :D  15:07, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * That is why you are OP =D-- 17:38, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Im on the list too, but im just special ed. :P --Veggienatersml.png 22:13, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should change your name to Veggiderp? Nohai.png 15:36, February 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should change your name to Veggiderp? Nohai.png 15:36, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Don,t you mean "poor robot's undo"??? :p 20:15, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Best but poor robot-- 00:31, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Unless riches bypass growth, in that case, "least and poor robot" would apply :D 08:44, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

mechanics
for the sake of non-mechanics (present company included), and to avoid the risk of inserting what may be percieved as opinion into mainspace articles, would you kindly define terms such as the following in any mechanics sections.

and

thanks for your hard work, mate.

17:45, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

+1 on both accounts. 18:21, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

"specific" vice "special"
The Evil Dr. Forrestor is on holiday, mate. when last sighted Asteroid F was in low orbit around Scotland performing questionably elective surgery on the local fauna. the debate rages on...

07:32, February 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll move on to more important things then. Happypal 08:12, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

well-meaning note of encouragement
just to play d evil's advocate, happy, some of your wiki predecessors have set a dangerous precedent in this regard. most notable would be D1g who single-handedly re-wrote much of the wiki herself, one page at a time, and didn't quit until she was finished. you may not find volunteers to help jumping out of the woodwork, but if this is an important project to you, then it should be important enough to do right, or not at all.

08:19, February 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Seems like everybody here had rather see no change at all. Happypal 09:09, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Not true dude, I have always expressed gratitude from the beginning. That may not count for much but THERE IT IS 09:12, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

And, I may point out, wishing I could help. 09:13, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

The reason you started this is that it was unbearable that the pages were like that... and if anyone, at anytime, says otherwise, then let him come at me on my talk page (mass quoting NOhara) 09:16, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

What your doing is fixing something that is BROKEN. I gave you some guidelines of my thoughts, but since I cannot help you, I just shut up. Mostly because you are the one who is DOING the work. Never underestimate your contribution, and unless someone REALLY decides to help you, do not take criticism without backing it up. There is something I have noticed on this wiki, and that is that it is easier to criticize than to actually do something. You, my friend, have backed up any criticism with actions. Don't let anyone take that away from you. What you do will never be reverted, because there is no one willing to revert back to what it was. Your actions are fixing what anyone else will just complain about. But that may just be me. 09:32, February 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Any doubts which may have arisen are only due to uncertainty of the fate of your endeavor, if you are (disappeared by a three-letter agency and thus) unable to add the information to all the pages. Please do not confuse said uncertainty with lack of confidence in your abilities. It is hoped that this is seen to completion. 10:00, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Nagy is not really threatening you, it just looks that way. You kinda got to get to know the man behind the mask :p 10:03, February 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Where was I being threatening? I barely got a word in. 10:04, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Three letter agency? and you going off to only fry knows where? :p 10:06, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

For the benefit of anyone who thought the same as bestrobot *cricket chirp*, I was joking. 10:19, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Ya, I know... Gunna miss that... EDIT: nagy can be gullible :p 10:24, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Just for the record, I respect nagy very much. I only really tease those that I like as a person. Just saying... 11:13, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

i'm not sure what i have to do to make myself more clear here. ""mechanics" belongs at the bottom of the page" turns into ""mechanics" should be removed." a note of encouragement that other large-scale wiki overhauls have been successfully completed turns into "i don't want any change at all." what do i need?? more emoticons? O_0 >:/ :( more cowbells?? Capital letters? Let me be crystal:

'''I. Want. / Endorse. / Encourage. ==Mechanics==. To. Be. Added. To. Every. Weapons. Page.''' item pages as well, if applicable.

if further clarification is needed the same words may be found written in thirty-foot-high letters of fire on top of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains in the land of Sevorbeupstry on the planet Preliumtarn, third out from the sun Zarss in Galactic Sector QQ7 ActiveJ Gamma. It is guarded by the Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob.

19:55, February 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, alright, I get it. Thanks for the support. I'll get back to work ✅.Happypal 07:00, February 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wgoitt2.jpg do like what you're doing with the pages, Happy-fying them and all. I'll just clean up the blood and eyeballs after it's all done. The format you're using actually works out really well, the mechanics being at the bottom of the page and simple explanation of the special part vs. the generic counterpart. I like it. Is this just for the orange and pearl guns? because the other guns don't have fancy parts... Nohai.png 12:08, February 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wgoitt2.jpg do like what you're doing with the pages, Happy-fying them and all. I'll just clean up the blood and eyeballs after it's all done. The format you're using actually works out really well, the mechanics being at the bottom of the page and simple explanation of the special part vs. the generic counterpart. I like it. Is this just for the orange and pearl guns? because the other guns don't have fancy parts... Nohai.png 12:08, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

I was planing to put a mechanics section to any gun that warrants it, even "normal" guns. For example, double and anarchy SMGs, stompers, massacres, whatever. Keep in mind that a "Title" (or prefix) is a part in and out of itself. It will be harder to compare to other titles, but I'm sure we'll find the right format. Interesting stuff can (and will) be said. Happypal 13:05, February 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Each standard title has its own prerequisite(s). 13:48, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Guys? GUYS... check Aerial Impact. There was a format mess up which was not fixed properly... by me, it's close but no cigar (I think) 13:57, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Mechanics
Great work on the mechanics page, you and nohara. I was one of the opposers to the idea fearing that it's too much information on one page. I think it worked out nicely, especially the comparisons of accessories

04:06, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

I saw the mechanics page info done for generic support machine guns. I don't think it really works in it's current format. It worked out with the orange guns because they had one special part and one generic counter part to compare it against, with this it's just comparing 3 different titles to each other. And while it could be deciphered with some time, I think it either needs to be more accessible or just undone. I won't undo it myself, I'll leave it up to you, I just think it needs a rethink. Meanwhile, are all the orange pages done? What about the Pearl pages? 15:31, February 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * My opinion is that it should work well, because those are the only 3 possible titles for Machine Guns (appart from the non-title "Machine Gun"). Apparently though, it isn't really working an needs more... something. It's a work in progress. I'll probably end up moving it to separate and more detailed "Machine Gun Mechanics" page. I'll need to sleep over it and think it through though. Did you see the Matador page? Happypal 16:20, February 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * The matador page is better...but only slightly (I think it's because there's just two columns in the table). I think part of the problem is that you're bringing in alot of new information that wasn't mentioned before, at all. I mean the average borderlands player can understand "Oh, so this barrel gives me better accuracy." but when you start delving into the numerical scale of rarites that's where I feel like you'd lose people. I'd still say focus on the legendary guns for now and the guns which actually get their effects from unique PARTS as opposed to unique titles until we better figure out a way to convey the information. Nohai.png  17:06, February 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Can do. Happypal 17:10, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Very nice guide
Wow, you do that with such ease LOL. Anyway, I know your busy... When you get a chance (don't do it now, just carry on with the mechanics, I am patient) can you critique the guide to make custom signatures? Any criticism or input is welcome (from anyone BTW). I want it, of course, to be the best it can be. Note that I have not messed with the third section, since it was waldo2k's contribution and want to touch base with him b4 aligning it. Thanks for all the work you are doing. 09:49, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll look at it. I haven't done so because I'd rather users contribute to the wiki than play with their sig, but to each their own. Happypal 09:51, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

LOL Yes but at one time, everyone and their brother was asking. I just saw a community need, played with it a bit and put it down so Dr.F could just refer to it. I actually learned much from that experience :) 10:03, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks OK. I personally don't believe that much in multy-person contribution to guides. It tends to feature too much and redundant info. Either leave it as it is, or be bold and do a complete rewrite, that's my advice. Happypal 10:49, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

The redundancy was all me though LOL. Cool, TYVM :) 10:55, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Anarchy
Check 67.163.120.73 users contributions to Anarchy. I don't know enough specs to determine if its vandalism. At the least, its very suspicious. Thanks :) 09:15, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Hiya. I didn't want to edit directly because I might not have all the data. The Anarchy is also made by Torgue. I did'nt know that Atlas did also (the reason I didn't edit). If you found an Atlas Anarchy, please give a pic in the talk page, EDIT: I am a newb at gun specs :) 21:55, February 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Does Atlas even MAKE SMGs O_O? 05:58, February 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * No. 06:31, February 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * I fixed it. I had actually copy pasted what the previous editor had used with no extra thought to it... sorry. Happypal 07:39, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

WEG
drat, you are correct. i guessed wrong. stock one looks like composite stock. two looks like a wooden one made in freshmen shop class. stock three looks like padded collapsible. stock 4 looks freakin cool. stock five looks a target rifle stock. 09:43, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

No D&D?
Do you mean to say that you have never played D&D (dungeons and dragons)? 10:50, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I'm just saying that not everything that's a cube is a reference do D&D. Happypal 11:10, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

That is true, but let me make a case(btw does the trivia sections need citation? just a question). Dragon Dice, as the original box set (I'm showing my age) of D&D gave a 4-sided, 6-sided, 8-sided, EDIT: 10-sided, 12-sided, and 20-sided die. The more recent (again showing my age) 30-sided die "died out", so to speak, because of the d20 system. The point is that these shapes have been used for over 20 years in role playing games. This is the first and original FPS-RPG. When I first checked the wiki contributor, I was looking for accuracy, which was amplified by your edit. I realized the connection to games which I have played. I don't know how much, if any, you have played these games but when you are reaching for a 4 sided die, in the midst of shapes you get to know them intimately. I, for one believe the reference to be to these dice that drive these RPG's (not only D&D, but every RPG that followed). I think it is cool that the first FPS-RPG gives reference to the past. I have seen many a trivia section doing stretches in conclusions. Again, do I have to actually cite a trivia section? It's ok if you don't agree, I have no problem with that. But I do believe they are reference to dice, since they could have just made them all the same. (sorry about the long winded explanation) 11:35, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, you don't need citations, and its not just because "other trivia section doing stretches in conclusions" that we should do it everywhere. On the contrary, maybe those other sections need to be re-thought.


 * Anyways, maybe you are right. I'd be more comfortable with a "may be a reference" in your trivia. Happypal 11:46, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The phrase "may be a reference to" is standard fare in 95% of the trivia on this wiki anyway, unless it's CONCRETE in that multiple things matchup. (Frankenbill for instance, in name and looks, is clear homage to Frankenstein.) Nohai.png 11:56, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The phrase "may be a reference to" is standard fare in 95% of the trivia on this wiki anyway, unless it's CONCRETE in that multiple things matchup. (Frankenbill for instance, in name and looks, is clear homage to Frankenstein.) Nohai.png 11:56, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

That is completely fair. And yes, I agree that other sections should be re-thought. But that is for another time... The work you are doing is far more important, in my eyes. I really want to learn more to explain it to others in a article for peeps that know nothing of mechanics. Although, I must say, from the few pages that I glimpsed that your doing a great job in concise information (even for newbs). My philosophy about such things is that: If you fix 100 out of 300 broken pages, then it only is 200 pages that need fixin... Thanks again for your work. 12:05, February 24, 2011 (UTC) Thanks for the info NOhara, and good morning :)

Editing mess
I have no idea why it does that. It's been doing that to me for the last year at random. And it only does it on this wiki. I usually catch it but if I'm just doing a quick revert or something, it often slips by. 15:22, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I did a quick wiki-wide search, and there doesn't appear to be any other, so no biggy. Happypal 15:30, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * They are usually cleaned up soon after having been spotted. 17:23, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Tediore
Where did you get the info that they suffered lower damage/accuracy? Personal experience or a strategy guide? 16:55, February 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its part of the Tediore material effects on weapons. Check it on gearcalc. Got to go. Happypal 17:06, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Relentless
Whoa... Very nice. Their should be a note that it is only on the base modifier. Err, how do I say? Including Gun Crazy. That each, independently adds the multiplier of the respective skills independently. Does that make sense? I'll get back to you when I'm not asleep. Nice revamp BTW. 15:32, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * As I was told when I first mentioned it, +X% modifiers are standard fare in RPGs, and it is a known fact that they stack. It is to make that:


 * 1) You don't have a combination of items that give you x128 damage...
 * 2) Gives incentive to have a balance of modifiers. For example, once you have +200% damage, a +50% to Fire Rate is better than +100% Damage. Happypal 15:40, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

I compared Relentless to Impact and High Velocity just because of the order of magnitude of the damage buff. Yes, it's different in being an on-kill effect, and yes, in that sense it's more like the completely over the top Revenge (good comp). It's also chaotic (in the RR sense), unlike the other three. Anyway. Daemmerung 16:38, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Class mods
Can you by chance get rid of Lilith's manufacturers? I think you are trusted enough to do that. There is: first of all, no continuity, second of all, It is more concise (shows everything on one page). The Lilith section is cumbersome and not needed. It is inconsistent with the other characters and would require more research and more encumbering the page to show all manufactures for each character. It is distracting, and we (at least, I) want to just show the stats. I will do it if you are busy :) 14:59, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, I did it. I know someone probably did alot of research on it but... in the end, consice data is prefered (Thats just my opinion) 15:15, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

new weapon navboxes
Uniques are blue? Why not purple? casual question 17:14, March 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * For best contrast against the navbox background, perhaps? Gotta have some color or other.  Could as well be green with my usual loot-drop luck. Daemmerung 17:17, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Feature request for Infobox_weapon
When additional manufacturers are specified (manufacturer2 etc.), could this template add categories for those manus as well? E.g.,Cobra should emit categories for Dahl and Hyperion as well as Tediore.

If you look in this template's history, you'll see that I may have implemented this myself already. Couldn't test it properly thanks to server transclusion caching, however. I wasn't at all confident in what I was doing, so I unrolled my changes rather than leave something potentially broken in there. Daemmerung 23:05, March 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * In my experience, it is best when infoboxes don't automatically provide categories. Its problematic when you put info boxes on talk pages, or test infoboxes, and usually has un-foreseen consequences when seemingly minor changes are made.
 * On the other hand, putting ALL categories by hand at the bottom of the page makes it crystal clear to everyone what the page adheres to, and makes it very easy for any editor to edit.
 * Further more, I'm still not too confident on the use of the infobox_weapon... Is it supposed to give the range of each possible permutation of the weapon? Is it just supposed to illustrate the current weapon? Its use is a bit varied throughout the wiki... Happypal 07:53, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

I don't necessarily disagree with you about the category automagic, but they're already all doing that.

Having the infobox state the range of possiblities seems most useful to me. (For folks who can't derive that themselves from the parts combinations.) What does not seem particularly useful is having it restate whatever's on the weapon card illustration.

Thanks for looking at this. I'm watching how you're testing your hacks, too. Educational. Daemmerung 16:11, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Since your the one that is mostly handling categories, could you tell me what you need exactly? Currently, the template will automatically create the following:
 * Manufacturers
 * Type (SMG, Combat Rifle etc...)
 * Rarity
 * Element (when 1 of the 4 elements)

IMO, we can get rid of rarity. As for manufacturers, I can do it so that for infoboxes with only 1 manufacturer, we create categories, but for pages with several (say anarchy), then we don't. Type and Element seems fine to me.

Anyways, since your the one doing all the category maintenance, its up to you. Tell me what you need.

PS, what do you think of my ranged-prototype? Happypal 16:25, March 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just took a look at Draco. I like it.


 * Part of me thinks that multiple manufacturers should emit multiple manufacturer categories. Cobras ending up in Dahl, Tediore, and Hyperion; Anarchies ending up in Torgue, Dahl, and Tediore; etc.; such that opening up the Dahl category shows that Anarchy is a possibility.  (That in turn begs the question, of what utility is a manufacturer category?  What do we want out of it?)  Either all of them, or none of them.  If none of them, perhaps example weapons need a different infobox that doesn't generate categories at all for most attributes.  (Can you subclass an infobox?)


 * Anyway, I have to disappear from the scene for a while, so there will be no frantic category parties for a while. At least, none hosted by me.  There's time for thought on this. Daemmerung 16:50, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

It works! Cool! Daemmerung 15:20, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

Anarchy
So what your saying is that a shotgun (matador) can do higher dps than an Anarchy because of proficiency? Thanks for the proper citation code :) 10:47, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

P.S. I am not biased in anyway. Anarchy is my favorite weapon but that may be due to the dark side (faster, easier). I do like shotguns also.


 * Yes, but they are different weapons. If you take into account proficiencies (everyone has level 50), then they are a close match. They'll have close DPS. The Anarchy is easier to use, as you'll always land hits, whereas very close quarters shotguns are hit or miss. Both weapons will have equivalent DPS against a wall... Until the matador runs out of ammo. The Anarchy will have a higher overall throughput. However, the Matador has a better ability for raw burst DPS. As a heavy gunner, with 5/5 in scattershot, my 36 magazine Terrible Matador simply redefines "Bullet Storm" (I'd approximate the DPS to about 50% higher than my Pearl Anarchy), not to mention higher accuracy.
 * That said, if you are a Siren, (or any other class), then the Anarchy is probably a better choice. Happypal 11:04, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that input, I have never really considered proficiency when measuring dps (only skills). I am never one to choose a lesser gun. Although play-style has to do with it :) 11:13, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * As a general rule, you should always try a gun before discarding it. There are so many effect not on the weapon card, you could be surprised by a lesser gun turning out superior.

Oh, I never discard any decent gun. Until recently though, I have never found a use for the Cold Torment's I kept. Then I made a test character that turned out AWESOME with them. It was the consideration of proficiency that I was "discarding". Thanks for the info :) 21:41, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

weaponbox
i am happy to see your trying the rarity colour for title\name. i was afraid i was going to have try to figure that out myself. 18:32, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you think of the result? I'm wondering if its not a bit gimmicky... I like the "dirt red" scheme of the existing box, and I find white on red has good contrast, rather than blue/purple on green-blue. I'm all ears.
 * I also made sure the element effect (ie: Incendiary), matches the color of the element. Happypal 18:39, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * in point of fact i like gimmicky shticky changes. for what its worth i think you should rename your infobox to the existing page and see if anyone cries about it.  again i was planning on trying this myself, so thanks.   19:33, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well that was the plan. Don't do it yet though, you'd break a few things. I wanted to try a few things without breaking the wiki, or doing too many mainspace history edits. I'll keep the current format, and then do a few post-rollout tweaks if needed. I may request your help for a history merge/move. Happypal 21:24, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * i aint doin nothin, lest im asked. its your baby.   22:28, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Juggernaut
I like how you added actual damage taken to the table for Juggernaut, I edited the wiki a long time ago before I registered. Back then I woulda added to the table, but I didn't want to mess around with the articles so much :D

15.195.201.91 15:07, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

...aaaand I forgot to sign in before leaving that message. Cykeisme 15:09, March 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Remember: Be bold. Edit, even if the result is crap. Someone like me will come along and improve your edits. Overall result = better wiki.

Table hacking
Look, you're a man of the world, you've, ummmm, you know, done it... with a table ... what's it like?? -- The "borderlands" table class is very horizontally biased. While I've been pretty monkey see, monkey do, monkey apply "borderlands" class until now, I have an application that would be better served with a more vertical table. So I guess I have to figure out raw tables and their classes. Where would I find the definitions of the current table classes, for study? Daemmerung 17:31, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hum... Ok? The borderlands class only applies border-colors, background-colors and cell padding. It is not biased anymore to horizontality, than verticality. The fact that a table is a borderlands table doesn't prevent you from customizing it though. I'm sure you've seen the character tables, they are quite vertical. Anyways, whatever it is you are looking for, you can find it in the wiki's css: MediaWiki:Common.css. I was thinking of doing a tweak or two in there... but then I thought: One thing at a time. Happypal 19:42, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Confusion on my part from incomplete understanding of mediawiki tables. Thanks for the pointer. Daemmerung 19:45, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, do you need help? If you can't get what you want quite right, add it anyways, the community will help finish the job. Happypal 19:48, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm counting on that, yeah. Right now it just needs to be legible.  One small step for the wiki, a giant leap for Daemmerung. Daemmerung 19:57, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

Saw your contributions. Most excellent. Two points:


 * I think that this page should avoid naming actual percentage bonuses both because that's all on blmodding (which I'm not going to fact-check, and would rather not duplicate) and because the gist of the trend disappears in a fog of numbers. It's more straightforward if you normalize e.g. body1 to a baseline and describe from that.
 * My model number chart is a solution to folks who just want to know, "RV320, what's that?" without getting lost in multiple columns. Yours is a better pure parts reference.  I think that both of our charts should stay in some form or other.

Good weapon part thumbnails are hard, I have found. (A shocking discovery. Alert the world media and the Nobel Committee.)  I'm beginning to think that I can't do better than the existing illustrations in Gun Component Charts, possibly touching them up for crisper outlines where that would aid part identifications. Also, I keep getting distracted and playing the game (even with my current boatload of mediocre DL and KLR bodied example revolvers) instead of taking screenshots. Darn this fun thing. Daemmerung 17:10, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Ogre Mechanics
When you get a chance, do you mind adding in the mechanics paragraph for the Ogre page? I've already taken care of the description and usage section. 12:30, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Using part template in a table header
It's not an IE problem. It's a monobook skin problem. It's legible if I switch the skin back to "new Wikia" (ugh). To recap: code within a table header on monobook skin yields white text on a white background. using new Wikia skin now, ugh can't find anything Daemmerung 15:50, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried monobook on ie 8, with and without compatibility, and I didn't see it. I'll try to change the part template to have a courrier font, rather than use code tags. Done, is it better? 16:01, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Legible now (tested by rereading your Dahl Anaconda mechanics addition). Oh behalf of all three and one-thirds IE/monobook users in the galaxy, I thank you. (Never thought to check compatibility....) A little disturbing to me that you never saw yourself what I saw. I hate bugs like that. Daemmerung 16:15, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the magical world of internet websites and browser compatibility :) 16:36, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Unique parts
I noticed a few orange weapon pages are still missing a description of their unique parts. Are you still currently working on it or did you just miss them =D? 16:01, March 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its just that I'm doing the weapons one at a time, rather than do an entire pass for the part, then a pass for the description, and finally one for the mechanics 16:08, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

about time we meet
hi, I don't want to interrupt you but can you meet me on IRC relatively soon? the channel is #wikia-bl 09:13, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

rev 21:6
i reworded that carefully because if users dont see it, they add it. trust me on this. itll come back. 10:02, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

thanks
Hey, thanks. I haven't even looked at a page face (just edit history) for about 2 weeks. I only knew it was in the wrong section. Come to think of it, I think I am the one who adamantly said the bottom of the page for mechanics LOL. anyway, I'm off to bed and thanks 11:08, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

I'll BE ON VACATIONS FOR 2 WEEKS
I'll BE ON VACATIONS FOR 2 WEEKS. 16:25, March 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Have fun and make sure you bring me souvenirs =D 16:32, March 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * So, two weeks of non-stop wiki editing? That is awesome!! Daemmerung 17:15, March 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lolz, actually, to weeks of no-internet. At all. Nothing. Sight... 17:41, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2w of offline sounds even more awesome. Hopefully that's offline w/ sunshine. 1C and mixed snow/rain here. Some "springtime," bah. Daemmerung 17:50, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Make sure Dr. F has approved your leave...Nohai.png 17:42, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Think of me as AWOL, but I think DR. F will close his eyes on this one. He knows I'll be back... 17:45, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

What? 2 weeks of unhappiness on the wiki? T.T, we need you back happy 00:33, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

I'm back (>^-^)> !
I can't look at 2 weeks worth of recent changes. Anything I should look at? 09:40, April 9, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back!! Not much really. Another UC good faith edit? on the elemental damage page. He hasn't sighted any research or source so I reverted until I get the time to sift through it (left a message, of course). Peeps are working on Brink wiki alot, I hear. I am way less active due to schedule. Errm, Bukkithead is a sysops for 2 weeks (new program/contest). And they slapped me with a UotM award for being a sap for new users. Thats about it as far as I know. Maybe someone knows more stuff LOL. Nice to see ya. 10:24, April 9, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome "home." I haven't done jack-monkey-squat here. Mostly AFK, plus an inconvenient neck injury that has hindered geekery. Still on course to finish a sniper rifle parts overview. Will then double back through the various pistol/repeater/rifle uniques and legendaries to see what sort of synergy with the parts pages I can knit. Daemmerung 15:57, April 9, 2011 (UTC)

Mythbuster project
Now, see, comments like the one you left on Dr. F's talk page kinda irritate me. If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to walk you through the work I've contributed to the mythbuster project, including all the evidence I've submitted.

If you're referring to my edits of five forum threads and one talk page, I personally feel that those are places for opinions and the tag on those pages does little more than clutter up Category:Statements needing citations. I chose to be bold and remove them completely, with the exception of one where it was being used as an instruction and therefore required the  tag to properly display.

In the future, if you take exception with my edits I would appreciate it if you approached me by either leaving a message on my talk page or, if you'd rather keep the discussion private, by sending me an  Email. Not by asking a sysop to "keep an eye" on my project. 23:45, April 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, I'm not talking about the forum edits, or any edit of your edits in particular. I'm just saying yours is an ambitious project, and it could be solved 1 of 2 ways. The right way or the wrong way. I have no fear that you will do things the right way on the project. However, you are not alone on the project, and I personally asked a sysop to make sure no other user would mi-interpret your goals. Don't see anything else of it. 06:19, April 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay. I apologize if I came off as hostile in any way. From my point of view I saw Dr. F provide (constructive) criticism of your new project, you responded to him both on the forum and on his talk page and then brought up my project out of the blue, all while seemingly defending yourself and the validity of both your current projects. I felt as though you were attempting to deflect (negative) attention away from yourself and towards me. Again, I apologize for misconstruing your words, and I'm glad that we both took the time to clear this up, but I'm sure you can see how I reached that conclusion. -- 07:31, April 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I see how you reached that conclusion. But in my defense, I did not talk about my project in any form on his talk page. On the contrary, it was a completely separate, wholly sysop centric conversation, about red link usage and my thoughts on your project. Anywhoo, godspeed to you. 08:02, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

infobox weapon
so kill the autocat for colour and add autocat for rarity? belay that, best to standardize the rarities first. 23:31, April 13, 2011 (UTC) thats not to say dont go ahead and kill the autocat colour
 * For now, I'm just tagging the weapons. The goal being that once done, we would be free to do anything we want. 06:15, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Happy, we have a problem.
Hi, it seems that something to do with the weapon infobox is creating redundant categories. I have fixed most of them but I can't figure out why pages are being added to this new 'Eridians' category. Dr. F seems to think that you are the person to talk to about this. Would you mind taking a look at that?

Thanks. 22:51, April 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing it up. I fixed it. I'm now working on the proper tagging of Eridian weapons. 06:25, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

The photo you replaced on the massacre page is not linked properly. I dont know which photo exactly you intended to put there so i cannot fix it without replacing it completely. If you would kindly fix the link please that would be great. 06:49, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right. Typo on my part. 17:20, April 17, 2011 (UTC)

Volcano
Would you mind looking at the Mechanics section you added? When I read it, it seems like you contradicted yourself. (Saying that it did, then did not, increase damage.) Thank you. 17:53, April 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixored 20:45, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Quick!
Add the mechanics section to the Aries page! Before it gets vandalized and the Dr. has to protect it again! U&D is already done. 23:43, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

hellfire proc
I am assuming that the incendiary effect is the poof of flame and the proc is the DOT effect. Is that what you mean in the U&D of the hellfire? 10:16, May 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I mean it will lignite the opponent at no cost to tech. 10:18, May 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ignite... as in DOT? I am only asking because the sentance: While all of its shots won't necessarily proc, All of its shots will trigger an incendiary effect, lighting opponents on fire... is confusing to me. 10:21, May 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a bit of ambiguity mostly from the definition of "proc". Just like a revolver, all of the Hellfire's shots will have a minimal elemental effect: There will be a little flaming animation (but it is just an animation), and opponents will be set on fire, and then take DoT. This will happen, but it is not a "proc": A proc is a "Programmed Random OCcurence". It means you will consume some tech and deal extra damage, create an exceptionally large flame blast (potentially hurting more enemies), and set things more on fire.
 * Yeah, its not perfectly clear, and maybe the sentence can be changed to "The Hellfire will ignite and stack flame damage to opponents on every shot". Anyways, you have the explanation. I'm probably going to let it rest, and then change it. 10:28, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

obviously it all started on hellfire where gbxforums' User:L3VIATH4N stated in his manifesto his intention to rewrite the wiki in his own image (annointing "all 5s" as his chosen). he seemed to have quite a following back then so i set up a mechanics subpage for every weapon and linked each from its article (admittedly i eventually ran a bounty board mission for adding mechanics template to each page). long story short l3vi quit in favour of EVEonline and with no one but Bobtm (who later quit as well) to do the work, it was abandoned. this was phase one. phase two was nagy and myself trying to do it ourselves. neither of us having felt any great need for the (non-visible) mechanics of the game to be described on the mainspace article we got bogged down by other projects and a dearth of editors @ that time. 10:40, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Dont mean to throw any wrenches... but I do not get DOT on every hit on an opponent. I don't know if that is exactly what you are saying (am quite tired). I will reread this at some point tomorrow. 11:12, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

A brief history of the Aries page...
Upon the Aries' page being added to the wiki, it was THE most edited page on the wiki for several months at a time. But it was never edited concerning anything related to the gun itself. It was ALWAYS either the red text or the trivia being edited by UCs. This lead to stupid connections being made to the trivia. Also, since the page itself was so popular, it was the primary target for vandals. After so many months of unconstructive/irrelevant edits being made, the Dr. decided that it was just best to close the page until further notice. 11:06, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

The fleece is out of the golden bag now... until it gets to hot. The trivia section needs some work though... JUST KIDDING ALL !!!! relax. Although that link really sucks IMO, I will leave it. 11:15, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

The trivia section was under much debate for a long time, it was decided (read:Dr.F threatened to expel people from the asteroid) that it was best to take it all literally. While it's entirely possible to make the connection that "Aries" is supposed to be "Ares" due to the red text on the gun being straight from the God of War series, I guess that Aries the Ram can't be ignored. 11:20, May 3, 2011 (UTC) stupid ram and his stupid fleece...

Firehawk
There is a technical question that I am not qualified to answer on the Firehawk talk page. Section 6 "proc". 08:53, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

Calculation
Taking the side talk "to the talk page".

How do you hand calculate a delay charge? The shield you showed me on the cracked sash talk page is 2413 capacity with 455 recharge. When you divide, it comes out to 5.3 not 3.95?

I always just go for recharge unless I benefit greatly in the capacity part. 16:39, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, what you just calculated is "time to recharge shield once recharge begins". I'm talking about "delay before recharge begins". In this case, we know we have a body4, with -50% recharge delay, leftside4, -40% recharge delay, and Pangolin3, +10% recharge delay. This gives us -80% recharge delay. ALL shields start with a base 7 seconds delay. This gives us "7/(1+0.8)" using borderland's calculation style, which is: 3.88s. Give or take.
 * So in total, my shield will take 5.3s+3.95s = 9s to recharge me.
 * To contrast this score, the Ironclad can take up to 11.2s before even beginning to recharge, and will then take a further 15 seconds to recharge. This is why I love my shield so much. I recently found a perfect level 66 Rose, and but I still prefer my purple.
 * I find it very sad that this stat is not communicated on the card though. 17:14, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

First of all, nice shield. Second, thanks for the info. 17:41, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

Item Table (Dr. F's BBOS #9)
I have taken aboard the responsibility with the previously mentioned job, and I'm almost done, but I've hit a little bit of a snag. I informed Dr. F of my problem and he told me to contact you. My problem is, the sample image on the page is stuck inside the table as shown here. Could you please explain how to fix it to me. 05:03, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi there. It was a simple problem: The Template:Item table end didn't actually close the table, making all subsequent content appear in the last cell.
 * That said, I had already volunteered for this task: I notified Fryguy on his talk page the first day, since he was the one that put up the bounty, and the BBOS is protected. I already wrote Template:Unique shield table start, and rolled it out at talk:Rose, talk:Atlas Omega, talk:Ironclad and Talk:Cracked Sash. 06:32, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * thanks for the help section, happy. clear, concise, and helpful.

Thanks
I do appriciate it. 09:31, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

3pdlc users
you may wish to see the 3pdlc muster to find other users who have installed end-user-created content. hit me up if you'd like to take on any of the content with me. contact info is on my user page.

20:46, May 27, 2011 (UTC) if you are feeling particularly masochistic you could try the ridiculously difficult scrap hole. 20 rounds of insanity with a very poor payoff, other than the satisfaction of completing the whole tourney (and a spiff ubx).