Forum:Help me find out if the +2 rare item finder works on chests!!!!!

Experiment: Does wearing a +2 Team Find Rare Items Mod effect the items which spawn in a chest?
Experiment Suggested by: Wylde bil Contributions by: Raisins | Doctorgray | Dr. Clayton Forrestor | DrKirth

ok so this is how we can compile statics and help up find out if they really work on chests. to do this we all have to follow the same rules that way all our numbers will work together instead of work against each other.

RULES MOVED TO TOP OF PAGE by Doctorgray

also if someone knows how to set up a chart that would be nice, i do not.

so i got 4 runs i'll put up

WITH +2 RARE finder CLASS MOD ON
 * runs                   25   -   25   -   25   -   25
 * average item per run  14.52 - 13.48  - 14.56  - 13.92
 * pearlescent              1  -   0    -   0    -    0
 * orange                   2  -   5    -   1    -    8
 * yellow                   5  -   8    -   4    -    7
 * purple                  64  -  51    -  49    -   30
 * blue                    77  -  69    -  87    -   86
 * green                  122  - 121    - 125    -  120
 * white                   89  -  83    -  96    -   91
 * eridian                  3  -   2    -   2    -    6
 * total                  363  - 323    - 364    -  348

ideas, thoughts and constructive criticism are all welcome. i hope others out there are fed up that they will not tell us what exactly what it affects and want to try and find out.

Wylde bil 06:26, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

- As per the older thread Forum:Rare_Item_Effect_Mods, i did a bit of the same thing --Raisins 06:30, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Newhaven 6 chest runs. Seven times each with and without +2 Find Rare Items.

I really hope it works because I've done all my looting there w/ a +2 rare item mod. I've noticed that when I don't wear it, I usually see white/green items in chests and when I do I see more blue and purple. Then again, it could just be my imagination. I'll do some runs tomorrow and post them.

Anyway, I did an analysis of the stats above and so far there's not enough data to tell whats up. What I can tell you is this: You're likely to get about 2.3 items per chest regardless and orange items are going to come up about or less than .05% of the time. This means that you're likely to see an orange item every 20 chests or so. Now this doesn't mean you can't go 100 runs w/out an orange item but it means that you're likely to average out to about that. I'm guessing the mod has an effect, but I don't think its anything remarkable. It's probably just a difference of .01 % chance per chest for orange and a bit more for less rare items.

Suggestions: Instead of asking people to do this in sets of 25, ask them to do this in multiples of 5 that way people can still contribute even if they don't have the time to spend an hour in New Haven.

I do not recommend doing the 6th chest (near the bandit encampment) in this run. A) It takes more time than its worth B) Its too easy to forget not to kill enemies thereby creating a risk for corrupt data. C) It's much easier to compute data w/ multiples of 5 or 10 (5 chests, 5 runs, etc)

--Doctorgray 11:21, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * i fear i must respectfully disagree with my esteemed colleague. i am unconvinced the bonus does not apply to the entire area occupied by the player vice played as an instant (MtG ref) i.e. when each item spawns.  i am interested in this thread as my theory is the mod provides an area of effect/affect and to be fair my proof would require raiding _all_ boxes _and_ killing every spawn-able enemy in said area (new haven).  this is tedious i know but i should point out that i rarely get [0] yellow+, but from  your data neither do you.  Dr. Clayton Forrestor 14:37, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

doctorgray that makes complete sense it just frustrates me that my data is no good for that now cause the numbers are skewed for the 6 chest and that was 4 hours of work, umm for the 6th chest if you go the back side to the chest you never fight bandits and if you hug the trash pile the bugs don't even come out as you see i have extensive knowledge on this because i did it for 4 hours lol if we shorten it ot the 5 chest in the town then do you think we have to throw my data out? also side note i have found weapons i use out of that chest though i will admit i had to go through tons of trash guns to get to them. Wylde bil 13:57, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

GOD DAMN there are alot of doctors in this room LOL, makes me feel sooo soo soo small anyway dr. clayton one step at a time i was thinkin the same thing but just wanted to do the chest first, also doing enemies require documentation of what type of enemy. i mean superbad drop better stuff then normal bandits, and the random generator they have doing the guns is similar if not the same as the one that does enemies sooo we could go through once and get no superbads then turn around and hit 6 or 7 and that will skew our numbers so that would have to be done separately, look at all the work we have to do cause gearbox cant give us the simple answer of what +2 rare finders effect. Wylde bil 15:47, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * it is my sneaking suspicion mr bil, that you have hit upon the very reason _why_ gearbox has not and may never reveal the exact process of +x find rare items. being the fact that gamers such as ourselves will exhaust hours of gametime and compose titanic treatises such as this just to uncover a theory as what it does.  gametime = >product = >$,£, etc.  Dr. Clayton Forrestor 16:59, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

To both Dr's points, either it works on chests or it doesn't. Testing any set of chests (or set of enemies) should show the effect if it exists, you shouldn't need to test the whole area. Wylde bil's data is fine, probably. Paranoid musings: Loading-in is not the same a zoning in. I know this because the secret Weapon Vending Machine never spawns if you start the game in New Haven, but has a chance to whenever you travel to New Haven from anywhere else. Maybe this effects item generation. --Raisins 17:21, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * my dear raisins you make an excellent point however comma your reasoning is contradictory. im not practicing proctology here, just saying, this mod either affects the area or it doesnt.  i had not put together that the vendor never opens when spawning excuse me loading in.  and i express no refutation whatsoever of Mr. Hiccock's data.  i was just throwing my sandal into the cogs for a bit of unearned glory on the OP's coat-tails. i shall shut up now as the nurse is coming for my weekly sponge bath and im not allowed to be "playing-on-the-internet" excepting outdoor periods.  Dr. Clayton Forrestor

In response to Wilde Bill:

We shouldn't have to throw out your data as long as you didn't kill any enemies. Every thing will work out fine, I was just making the point that not only is it quicker but its easy to compute. Anyway, if some more people take the time to write down their results we should be able to figure this out quite quickly. It'd be nice if we could get 10,000 chests worth of data. This means we'd need 2,000 runs I.E. 200 people to do 10 runs each. (5 w/ 5 w/out) Please please don't take this to mean that you should do it yourself. I'm sure some people will contribute over time as this issue isn't going away. I'll try to get in around 50 runs today since I've got some time on my hands, I'll post the results here and the computations at pastebin.com --Doctorgray 17:31, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

really you think, cause i figure once they got our money they could really careless how long we play, they already got our money, look how long it took to fix core issues on all plat forms, then take in the account DLC are coming every month, i figure for 2 reason they know they got a good structure but lack things to make it re-playable other then us obsessive gun hunters and to make more money, telling us won't keep either of those facts from people playing the game but at the most change their strategies while playing them, now i only play 2 games borderlands and NBA 2K10 both are major titles for 2K and both came out with serious serious core issues that have taken months to patch had made me contemplate trading both in but because the structures of thee games were so sound i was basically sitting there and taking it and askin for more til they fixed the issues, both have made me restart because of these issues too, i guess i went on this rant for one simple thing telling me wouldn't change how long i play the game sooooooooooooo GEARBOX just tell me what it does and doesn't effect already cause the only thing i'm doing more is typing on this message board because of you not telling us. o and raisins i get that secret machine fine from loading in to the zone it happens about 1 out of 4 times for me and im glade i don't have to do it alone cause it wouldn't get done lol Wylde bil 17:34, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

125 chests - New Haven - +2 Mod

--Doctorgray 21:06, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Hey everyone. I ended up doing 10 New Haven runs of the 5 chests, both with and without the rare item finder mod. I also sorted out the weapons I found by material grade (e.g. "ZZ" is uncommon and "XX" rare for Jakobs weapons) to see if the mod affected material grade rather than color rarity. Anyway these are my findings, feel free to consolidate the values into the groupings you want if you don't want them so separated.

Notes: I also placed low quality weapons into the Common Category (C). Also, I'm not 100% sure if Torgue and Atlas weapons display their material grade all the time, so the numbers may be skewed towards common for every Torgue and Atlas weapon I found. The Misc. category contains shields/grenade mods/class mods/eridian weapons.

100 chests - New Haven

--DrKirth 22:53, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

my results:   Dr. Clayton Forrestor 23:37, December 12, 2009 (UTC) 7 runs each. 6 chests.

ok wow this changed real fast anyway i have 100 more runs of 6 chest so a total of 600 more chest with the mod on, since i see we have more of that the next set i do will be without i also notice we got another doc too lol

WITH +2 RARE finder CLASS MOD ON
 * runs                   25   -   25   -   25   -   25
 * average item per run  13.68 - 12.28  - 13.64  - 14.36
 * pearlescent              0  -   1    -   0    -    0
 * orange                   5  -   4    -   6    -    6
 * yellow                   3  -   1    -   8    -    5
 * purple                  42  -  34    -  41    -   43
 * blue                    77  -  71    -  58    -   72
 * green                  128  - 115    - 133    -  149
 * white                   86  -  74    -  91    -   79
 * eridian                  1  -   7    -   4    -    5
 * total                  342  - 307    - 341    -  359

i can't wait for the next dlc so i can stop have 12 other character on another Xbox 360 id full just to hold all my gear Wylde bil 07:37, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

ooo also someone brought up about the extra machine in new haven if you want i have stats on how often it comes out to play and i have stats on what was in both of them, though i was only counting the pearlescent, orange, yellow and purple if anyone wants to know, o yeah i have started to notice on the runs i can start to guesstimate what is in the last 2 chest depending on the first 4 so far that i have been doing it I've been right about 75% of the time, i wanna see if anyone else notice some things. if you get more then whites then you get an orange, yellow or a couple of purples, but more greens or blues mean at best a yellow or purple. it might be random but each run seems to have a balance, i've had a run were i got 4 yellow / oranges but mostly everything else was white, i also seem to get more oranges when i open revolver or repeater cases it makes me wonder if that is cause of what i have in my hand or due to my proficiency level. anyway i'm glade we could work together to crack this mystery. Wylde bil 07:59, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Nice data bill. I'd definitely suggest that ANYONE who wants to help out to do No Mod runs. We've got a good stack of data (almost 1500 chests with the mod on, we have about 1/6th of that w/ No MOD. Anyway, I updated the charts and I don't know how its going to work out yet but I don't see much of difference so far, however with the lack of data on the no mod side anything could happen.

--Doctorgray 10:43, December 13, 2009 (UTC)