Talk:Angel

Possible Origins
From various clues in the game, It may be concluded that the Guardian Angel could be either an AI created by Tannis either for company in her psychosis, or accidentally created when her computers were fried while she was trying to translate Eridian writings. Another possibility is that the Guardian Angel is a split personality of Tannis, which expressed itself thorough the ECHO network. Other theories postulate that the Guardian Angel is an agent of the Hyperion corporation or is actually an Eridian.

Clues that lead to this are as follows:


 * Tannis "practically invented" the ECHO network which The Guardian Angel relies on. (Contradiction: Yet she could converse to you on Marcus' bus, before you received the Echo Device from the Cl4P-TP. [note: She can still converse with you after the echo network is shut down suggesting she uses another means to communicate. References to her being "blind" indicate she only uses the echo network to track you])
 * Tannis called the ECHO recorder "two timing" suggesting there was another being in her encampment, even though she was the only living human there. This may simply be a symptom of Tannis's extremely loneliness, especially coupled with Tannis's implied sexual relationship with the recorder: "Some cycles I sleep with it and some cycles I make it stay outside my tent."
 * Tannis asks, "Did you get my message?" when you discover her in a cell. She also says, "They were foolish letting me keep my Communicator," meaning that her alter-ego could have sent the message from the cell. (Speculation: This could refer to a garbled message that is sent to the player after the Atlas Corporation shuts down the ECHOnet. Tannis could be attempting to contact the player to inform them of her inprisonment, but due to the shutdown the player recieves only static.)
 * The paper you get from her is written in the form of an argument with an "invisible cellmate".
 * If the Guardian Angel is an AI made by Tannis, this would explain her knowledge of the Vault. (Contradiction: In the early ECHO Journals, Tannis is extremely skeptical of the Vaults existence.) (Contradiction contradiction: Tannis has been on Pandora for several years previous to the player's arrival, which implies that by the time the player arrives Tannis has already been convinced of the Vault's existence.) (Contradiction contradiction contradiction: While the player is on Pandora Tannis announces to New Haven's residents that she has "...concluded that the Vault is more than likely genuine." which implies that she had made this breakthrough only recently, despite the timeline her journals would imply.) (Contradiction contradiction contradiction contra.. this is getting ridiculous: Tannis could have only made the announcement at that point, after reconfirming her belief in her findings. Also, with the last ECHO journal, she says how she's THEN spreading them all over Pandora)
 * In ECHO Journal entries 224 through 493 (obtained during the Hidden Journal: Rust Commons West mission), Tannis discusses translating Eridian writings, then later developing a program for translating the writings, accomplishing "far more" than she had expected herself. It was through this program's translations that Tannis came to believe in the vault. It is possible that, if the Guardian Angel is a AI existing within the ECHO network, it was created by Tannis as the translation program, or is in some way based off of this translation program. This would make the Guardian Angel AI less than a year old (in another Journal entry, Tannis mentions it being about half a year until the 200 year event of the Vault opening) but have a potential lifespan of hundreds of years. Being based off of a Eridian translation program, the AI could have insights into the Eridian writings that Tannis herself does not know about, allowing it to anticipate the coming of the Destroyer at the opening of the Vault.
 * The Guardian Angel tells you to deliver the key to Tannis to get a reward. This implies that either the Angel feels Tannis could do no harm in having the key or that the Angel has a particular bias towards Tannis.
 * When returning one of the Vault keys to Tannis, the Guardian Angel says in a transmission, "Congratulations! You got another piece of the key without my help! ...Or did you? (followed by gentle laughter,)" and Tannis gave you the info and helped you find it.
 * Another possible, and similar theory is that the Guardian Angel was not created by Tannis, but was communicating with her just the same as with the player character and also using Tannis's computer. A comment made after defeating Krom and collecting the Vault Key Fragment in his possession suggests that the Guardian Angel had a hand in leading you to the key, despite never talking to you. Another factor that can also be explained by this, is that Tannis was able to send out a message that, despite being impossible to understand, did reach the player characters Echo Communicator, suggesting that Tannis's communicator was still fully functional, and thus, could be used by the Guardian Angel as her eyes, leading to the argument between Tannis and potentially the Angel, that Tannis wrote in her cell about reactivating the EchoNet. The Angel's ability to hear what is spoken by others is questionable at best, but as she can use the communicators as her eyes, it is very possible that the argument on the napkin was Tannis' method of replying to the Angel.
 * It is also possible that the Hyperion corporation, being the closest direct competitor to Atlas, used their extensive spy and espionage network to find out what Atlas, Tannis, and the player were up to, and work to prevent it. The Guardian Angel may be an agent or AI used by Hyperion to prevent the release of the Destroyer, or to somehow further Hyperion's own ends.
 * An alternate theory is that the Eridians were a cybernetic race (which isn't improbable, given the sophistication of their technology and that all their weapons are electricly based and have names written in binary) and the Guardian Angel is, in fact, a surviving member of the Eridian race, tasked with keeping the Destroyer trapped in the Vault. Being a cybernetic being, the Guardian Angel would be able to interface with the Hyperion spy satellite and link into the ECHO network to watch and communicate with the player.If my lemon of a memory isn't breaking down on me again, I believe the Guardian Angel says there won't be another chance to open the vault in "THIS" lifetime, rather than "OUR" lifetime. Someone should pay attention on their next character and find out! =D --Aelwrath45 06:12, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Then she say "Faster! You wont be able to open the vault in your lifetime!" Gonna record it next time I go kill it.--Rubyus 05:06, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

---

Aelwrath you are correct. The Angel sends two transmissions, the first saying "in this lifetime" the second saying "in your lifetime". Any player can replay these transmissions by accessing their ECHO logs from inside the game. The first transmission is called "No Time Left" the second is called "Last Few Grains of Sand". --Braleth 17:12, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Angel & Clappy
I don't think that she hacked the CL4P-TP. Why would have she? -Supakillaii 20:46, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Hard to say. To be honest, the video doesn't even strongly imply that she did, but it is still intelligent speculation, and is clearly clarified as such. --Aelwrath45 17:53, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Would you kindly?
Although it's most certainly a bioshock reference, should we really be putting a spoiler for a completely different game here? --DragonJTSLeave me a message 05:26, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Nice Catch
Kudos to whoever caught the 4N631 serial number as a 1337speak. TheParagon 23:54, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Origins
Could it be possible that the Guardian Angel is an Eridian AI? Just saying. Nelo Angelo 97 19:09, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I'm gonna have to agree with the speculation that she is an Eridian AI. Seems entirely reasonable.Matthew21210 22:00, November 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think an important bit of information is knowing when the satellite was put into orbit, and for how long. We also need to know if there's a link between the Dahl and Hyperion corporations. Don't forget that Patricia Tannis is/was a Dahl employee, while the satellite is Hyperion. A lot of people are claiming there's a link between Tannis and the Angel, but that may not be true due to this separation.


 * It is doubtful that the current Angel is of Eridian design. If she was, then the Eridian wouldn't fight you, and she would warn you about the Eridian. Instead, it's a massive clusterfooey at the end that you have to fight through.


 * I feel that the Angel is a Hyperion AI. No corruption, no special sentience. It can clearly piggyback onto the ECHO network and gain vast amounts of information that way, but there is things she knows that no one else does. She knows what's in the Vault, but Tannis doesn't, so all her info didn't come from spying on Tannis. This means that her information either came from deciphering Eridian writing, or there is someone else who knows the real truth, and this leads up to my next speculation.


 * Another question comes up... does Hyperion know what's in the vault? I am leaning towards "Yes," and here is my reasoning:


 * If Hyperion didn't knew that the Vault was real, and that what was inside was dangerous, they'd probably end up shutting down the satellite. They have no presence on Pandora, other than selling guns, so chances are they wouldn't bother with putting anything/anyone on a planet that has nothing useful on it. (Or perhaps they're keeping it up as an eye-in-the-sky juuuuust in case.)


 * On the other hand, let's say Hyperion did know that the Vault was real, and that the Destroyer was inside. We know that the corporations aren't very high in morals. This is all speculation, but I believe they wouldn't reveal this information to the universe so that the other companies continue to waste time and resources in opening the Pandora vault. And each time, all of the interlopers end up being killed off by bandits, Eridian, treasure hunters, and the Destroyer. The Destroyer is eventually fought off, the vault closes, and the secret remains a secret. More people show up to hunt for the vault to get a reward that doesn't exist, and Hyperion continues to search for other Vaults that may ACTUALLY have technology inside. (They keep the satellite up to ensure that the Destroyer is actually fought off each time to keep the secret, too).


 * It's a bloody cycle at the expense of human life, just to squander rival corporation resources on a useless planet. ~ ~ ~ ~ Kleptomaniac666


 * Well, even if Hyperion has no presence on Pandora and shut down the satellite, most theories point at the Angel being an AI of some origin. When satellites are decommissioned, they aren't deorbited. Suppose the Angel just got it back online and assumed control. Hyperion has no presence on Pandora that we know of, so they probably wouldn't notice that their satellite got hijacked and if they did, they probably wouldn't care. Just because they satellite says Hyperion doesn't necessarily imply that they have anything to do with what it's doing now, especially given the general exodus of corporate interest. Greatak 07:43, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

I think y'all are being too generous about GA's motives.
It was mentioned in the game that Atlas got a big technological windfall from a discovery of alien equipment. The way that the closing scene shows the guardian angel as a pale reflection in a satellite with "HYPERION" blazoned across the side suggests that the whole thing was an act of corporate sabotage-- that Hyperion was just trying to confound Atla's discovery. All the talk about heroes and angels could be window dressing to get the player character to cooperate.

Where the Destroyer fits in is open for discussion, but the game is pretty cynical about the in-game corporations. I don't think the game meant to pose one corporation as the salvation of humanity.

Also, the closing track: "There ain't no heaven" suggests something more cynical is going on, as well.
 * I definitely agree, she may just be egging you on to find the Vault and open it so that Hyperion can get to the Vault first.76.112.66.245
 * I respectfully disagree. The GA seems to have knowledge of the Destroyer prior to the vault being opened and therefore if the GA were part of corporate sabotage, then there must exist a motive for Hyperion to kill the Destroyer. Also, since the vault immediately closed after killing the Destroyer, it is clear the nobody received alien technology from the vault's contents -- not even Atlas. In fact, I don't think Atlas is ever formally confirmed as having received alien tech from a Vault... as I recall, it was all speculation. As for the ending theme, I think it's a reference to the fact that all the hopes and dreams of the vault's contents -- heaven as it were -- turns out to be nothing but a fabrication. In the end, I feel the most logical explanation is that the GA was created by the Eridians for the sole purpose of ensuring that the Destroyer remains imprisoned.


 * Just as a quick note, i think the "There ain't no heaven" track has to do with the guardian reference to angels and archangels, with the vault being heaven, but the vault is full of a big monster instead of treasure. Meaning that "heaven" was full of nothing glorious like weapons, women, etc. So "There ain't no heaven" means what seemed amazing was actually worthless68.12.43.207 03:05, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Static
Everytime she (it?) contacts the player you receive the image her in staticky and flickery picture. This could support the fact that she is being transmitted through somekind of a network (like ECHO) or the satellite.


 * Well, as has been suggested before, she could be using a more crude method of interface. And that the image isn't necessarily her, but just the brain trying to put a source to the voice. The brain making stuff up of that magnitude probably isn't going to be crystal clear. Greatak 07:46, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Satelite
Anyone other than me think the satelite looks a little like a CL4P-TP or Claptrap? Casperk 18:55, December 13, 2009 (UTC) It did look like one from the front.-Razuk

if no echo, then how?
It could be surmised that angel can use the satellite to directly communicate with the player; however, because the satellite is not in geosynchronous orbit angel cannot always see you by those means. This means that the echo system would be a secondary means of communication, the deactivation of which would give angle less detailed info and periodic loss of communication.

Hyperion could not do it. Pandora has been a known world for a few years. Here is my new theory, based on what I read in Tannis's cell near the bottom, use a scoped weapon. Tannis is clearly writing to the guardian angel. The writing states that the "guardian angel" lives in a circular existence. Here is my theory. The angel is actually an AI or person made AI (possibly Tannis or a surdendand/or daughter of hers), from a future in which the destroyer escapes. the angel, in order to make sure that the destroyer does not escape, continually sends it's self back in time untill a suitable timeline is created, thus creating a "circular existence"

There is evidence in game that would suggest GA is a really clever Eridian hack
One theory I haven't seen discussed is the idea that the Guardian Angel is a piece of software embedded in the runes all over Eridian ruins. During the second journal collection mission in Rust Commons West, Tannis talks about how she has a translation AI that manages to successfully decode Eridian writing. During the decoding process, it also causes physical damage to the computing equipment upon which it runs. This could be just saying that the translation process is really intensive, or it might be that the Eridian writings contain the encoding for an artificial intelligence which hijacks Tannis' equipment. This event occurs a long time before the player's character arrives on Pandora, so in the intervening time this AI agent could hijack Tannis' equipment, communicate with her, and eventually get itself onto a Hyperion satellite to do its job of keeping The Destroyer locked up in the Vault using the player as a proxy.--Swanage 18:20, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

If it were an eridian A.I. Maybe it would communicate with a player in a way that spared more eridians. seeing as we tend too pick these off first rather than lance soldiers.

About some of the Tannis - GA 'evidence'
There're a few lines in this section which don't make sense. I didn't wanna just delete them before seeing what other people thought.

"Tannis called the ECHO recorder "two timing" suggesting there was another being in her encampment, even though she was the only living human there. "

There's nothing strange about this. Tannis says herself she was going a bit crazy and developed a relationship with the recorder. She develops a psychosis from being all alone in her campsite for so long. This also explains the following:

"The paper you get from her is written in the form of an argument with an "invisible cellmate". "

She just has a sort of split-personality disorder from being alone. Not evidence that these behaviours are a link to the GA.

Although your theories are logical, especially for real world, its also possible that the other theories suggested are true. Such as the argument on the paper could be her means of communicating to the GA since it may be impossible to talk to the GA but she can still see and talk to you, thus making writing on a paper the only way to communicate. Playn 07:09, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

"Personal Contact"
It is possible that she had transmitted her message to everyone on the bus, and they all heard and saw it. However, only the character the player chose actually decided to respond to it. The Flying Fenrakk 00:16, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Tannis did not create the Guardian Angel.
It's simple, really. In the opening cutscene on the bus, Marcus tells about how his father always talked of the Vault, leading to the Vault Hunters embarking on Pandora. However, before he gets to the Vault Hunters at all, he mentions the Guardian Angel. Thus, she was around, in all likelihood, before Tannis. Let me know if I missed something, but this seems pretty cut and dry to me. -- Claptrap 23:03, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

It seems most likely that Hyperion created the Guardian Angel
I just inferred this from looking at the satellite in the end cutscene. As someone else pointed out, the satellite says "4N631", or "Angel" in 1337 speak. While that could potentially be argued as a simple coincidence on Hyperion's part, one must also remember the Vault symbol is on the satellite as well, with "wings" on it. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the Angel was an Eridian or something that "took over" the satellite - she was probably created by Hyperion. -- Claptrap 18:14, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Unless the similarity in the symbols on the Vault and the satellite are just Hyperion branding. We never do see the actual interior of the vault and so can't have any conclusive evidence that the symbols on the Vault are Eridian in origin. Maybe Hyperion was just trying to lay claim to the find in a time when there was more direct corporate interest on Pandora. The satellite could have been assigned to the same project and branded similarly. It's not the Hyperion logo, but maybe they sub-contracted the affair or used a subsidiary for it. Greatak 07:55, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

My thoughts...
the guardian angel is perhaps the only/first friendly face you will meet during the game. But there is another one who is always loyal to you. always communicating. Of a robotic origin. Could it be possible that the guardian angel is really the first claptrap? She tells you to listen to everything it says, It could only communicate with you using ECHOnet and like i said, they are pretty much the only 2 friendly faces. Those who will argue about the bus at the start of the game, any character on that bus (albeit marcus kincaid) is playable, it is very reasonable to believe she wanted you to think YOU were the only one being spoken to. Also the player will npt hear from angel after cl4p tp goes haywire (into an intergalactic bounty hunter). I would like to hear what you think Grand theft automobile 14:45, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

more thoughts...
If my previous post proves insuccesful, i thought about this. Could the guardian angel be an eridian failsafe, put in to stop the destroyer getting out, but since the destroyer somehow weakened the failsafe (after the player got off the bus) it needed the ECHOnet, to be able to communicate with the player again. If this is true, could the player be possibly the last descendant of the eridian race? Seems plausible to me, but i wanna know what you think. Grand theft automobile 14:56, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

check this out!
here is a interview with the Guardian Angel from Borderlands!

http://87bazillion.com/2010/01/24/87bazillion-interviews-the-guardian-angel/

The GA and seeing you....
Don't know if this was mentioned or not but.. has any one thought about there being a GPS system in the ECHO device. I know she seen you before you got off the bus, but there could have been a device on the bus it's self.

just a thought

Scott. March 1st 2010